Who Had/Has The Best Debut Album?

[5 Grand]

There really isn't any debate here either. This album changed hip hop permanently.

Nope.

There is a debate.

The album Paid In Full came out in the summer of 1987.

The single Eric B Is President/My Melody came out in 1986, a year prior.

The single I Know You Got Soul came out in the spring of 1987, several months before the album.

If you look at the track listing, three of the songs were old and three more of the songs were instrumentals. Eric B Is On The Cut and Chinese Arithmetic had the same beat.



When it was all said and done, there were only four new songs; Paid In Full, I Ain't No Joke, Move The Crowd, and As The Rhyme Goes On.



Now, in 2019 Paid In Full is a dope album, but when it came out we felt there were only four new songs.


Criminal Minded and Bigger and Deffer came out the same summer.


I can remember arguing with my brother about who was the better MC and who had the best album between BDP, Eric B & Rakim, or LL Cool J.

It's debatable.

 

[konceptjones]

Nope.

There is a debate.

The album Paid In Full came out in the summer of 1987.

The single Eric B Is President/My Melody came out in 1986, a year prior.

The single I Know You Got Soul came out in the spring of 1987, several months before the album.

If you look at the track listing, three of the songs were old and three more of the songs were instrumentals. Eric B Is On The Cut and Chinese Arithmetic had the same beat.



When it was all said and done, there were only four new songs; Paid In Full, I Ain't No Joke, Move The Crowd, and As The Rhyme Goes On.



Now, in 2019 Paid In Full is a dope album, but when it came out we felt there were only four new songs.


Criminal Minded and Bigger and Deffer came out the same summer.


I can remember arguing with my brother about who was the better MC and who had the best album between BDP, Eric B & Rakim, or LL Cool J.

It's debatable.

Rakim changed the way rappers wrote their rhymes and it's very well documented. Nobody was spittin like him before he came out and everyone definitely switched it up after. This is evidenced by even KRS ONE's switch-up from how he rhymed on 12:41's "Success Is the Word" which dropped in '85, to "South Bronx" which came after Eric B Is President and furthered by LL's switch-up from his style on Radio in '85 to Bigger and Deffer in '87.

Also, Chinese Arithmetic and Eric B is on the cut are not the same. Eric cuts up Chinese Arithmetic and Eric B is President over a new beat on Eric B Is On The Cut; it's just a DJ track.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Enter the 36 Chambers for a group. Illmatic, Ready to Die, or Its Dark and Hell is Hot for solo artists.

I think the problem with some of the other "debuts" is they weren't really introductions to the artist. To me, you got to give more points to cats that seemingly came out of nowhere and put up a classic.

That's why I wouldn't put Doggystyle or OB4CL at the top of my list in this area. Both were great and OB4CL is my personal favorite Hip Hop album, but in both cases the artists had major buzzes going into the album from past work and pretty heavy help from the machines behind them.

 

[5 Grand]

Rakim changed the way rappers wrote their rhymes and it's very well documented. Nobody was spittin like him before he came out and everyone definitely switched it up after. This is evidenced by even KRS ONE's switch-up from how he rhymed on 12:41's "Success Is the Word" which dropped in '85, to "South Bronx" which came after Eric B Is President and furthered by LL's switch-up from his style on Radio in '85 to Bigger and Deffer in '87.

Also, Chinese Arithmetic and Eric B is on the cut are not the same. Eric cuts up Chinese Arithmetic and Eric B is President over a new beat on Eric B Is On The Cut; it's just a DJ track.

You say, "Rakim changed the way rappers wrote their rhymes and it's very well documented". Well the same could be said for KRS One.

The South Bronx/P Is Free single came out the same summer as Eric B Is President/My Melody. I think Eric B Is President/My Melody came out first by a month or so. That was also the same summer as Run DMC's Raising Hell album, which up to that point, was probably the greatest Hip Hop album ever recorded. Rakim's style was the polar opposite of Run DMC. He had the cool, calm lyrical style while Run DMC were yelling with rather simplistic rhymes.

But if you listen to South Bronx, KRS is using that calm lyrical style as well. Also, he was saying something of substance.


Anyway, when Criminal Minded dropped, KRS was right alongside LL Cool J and Rakim.

Check out track 1 on Criminal Minded. The way he flowed and put his bars together is quite remarkable. Not saying he's any better or worse than Rakim, but it's subject for debate. Also, Criminal Minded had 10 solid tracks. Paid In Full, at best, had 7 solid tracks...and three of them had already been released.

 

[ghostdenithegawd]

Besides the obvious shit yall naming ybn cordae had the best album coming from a lil nIgga since nas

 

[konceptjones]

You say, "Rakim changed the way rappers wrote their rhymes and it's very well documented". Well the same could be said for KRS One.

The South Bronx/P Is Free single came out the same summer as Eric B Is President/My Melody. I think Eric B Is President/My Melody came out first by a month or so. That was also the same summer as Run DMC's Raising Hell album, which up to that point, was probably the greatest Hip Hop album ever recorded. Rakim's style was the polar opposite of Run DMC. He had the cool, calm lyrical style while Run DMC were yelling with rather simplistic rhymes.

But if you listen to South Bronx, KRS is using that calm lyrical style as well. Also, he was saying something of substance.


Anyway, when Criminal Minded dropped, KRS was right alongside LL Cool J and Rakim.

Check out track 1 on Criminal Minded. The way he flowed and put his bars together is quite remarkable. Not saying he's any better or worse than Rakim, but it's subject for debate. Also, Criminal Minded had 10 solid tracks. Paid In Full, at best, had 7 solid tracks...and three of them had already been released.

If you really want to get down to it, 5 tracks from Criminal Minded had already been released before the album dropped: South Bronx/The P Is Free dropped in '86, the 12" for My 9mm Goes Bang also came out in '86, then The Bridge is Over/Word From Our Sponsor dropped a few weeks before the album. You could argue that The Bridge is Over was the lead single from Criminal Minded, but the same could be said about I Ain't No Joke for Paid In Full.

 

[5 Grand]

The Bridge Is Over/Word From Our Sponsor 12" came out in January 1987, the album came out in the summer of 87.

And The P Is Free was a remix.


Bottom line, Paid In Full had three instrumental tracks with no rapping. Still a great album, but it sounds better now than it did when it came out because some of the tracks were old when it was released.

Criminal Minded had some year-old tracks, but every song had rapping.

But yeah, you could say Paid In Full was "the best debut album" but we'd have to agree to disagree.

 

[Water Ur Seeds]

'Doggystyle' pretty much revoluionised the game... Snoop was a fresh new artist and shook up the genre and helped usher in a sub genre (gfunk) and a giant new label...

I know there were other West Coast artists before him like Dr Dre with the 'The Chronic' but Snoop's impact and album was almost flawless...

 

[5 Grand]

Now that I think about it, this is the correct answer. This album was like Hiroshima. Up until Run DMC's debut album, Rappers were marketed as R&B groups. If you ever get a chance listen to Kurtis Blow, Sugarhill Gang and Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5's early albums. They all had ballads and R&B tracks where they were singing.


Run DMC (with the help of Russell Simmons) put together the first Studio Hip Hop album (Wildstyle was first but that was a live album). Every song had hard beats and scratching. No R&B tracks. When Run DMC came out they shut the old school down. They dressed normal and carried themselves in a manner that made sense in relation to the music they made. If you look at how rappers dressed before Run DMC you'll notice a big difference.


Run DMC's self titled debut was the first 5 mic classic (studio album).

There' really no way to describe their impact. I was 10 years old when this album dropped and I was mesmerized by their music and image.

I guess it was similar to Snoop and 50 Cent.

Run DMC were the first rap group to go platinum (according to the RIAA).

 

[Worldwide]

As someone else who was around back then, Rakim vs. KRS-ONE as best emcee was a constant debate.

I think what happened is that over time Rakim stopped making new rhymes whereas KRS kept putting out projects even to this day.

Like a lot of great artists, their best work tends to happen early in their career. So nowadays people remember KRS "losing" to Nelly or the time KRS put out a wack "Christian" album or did a mediocre feature that didn't sound as good as his "classic" rhymes.

Rakim hasn't really released any "new" material in a long time so it doesn't seem like he has diminished skill wise.

Picture a group like the Rolling Stones... no one is going to see them for their "new" material. They want the classics...

 

[5 Grand]

As someone else who was around back then, Rakim vs. KRS-ONE as best emcee was a constant debate.

I think what happened is that over time Rakim stopped making new rhymes whereas KRS kept putting out projects even to this day.

Like a lot of great artists, their best work tends to happen early in their career. So nowadays people remember KRS "losing" to Nelly or the time KRS put out a wack "Christian" album or did a mediocre feature that didn't sound as good as his "classic" rhymes.

Rakim hasn't really released any "new" material in a long time so it doesn't seem like he has diminished skill wise.

Picture a group like the Rolling Stones... no one is going to see them for their "new" material. They want the classics...

Yeah, I was in high school from 87-91 and it was a constant debate between KRS, Rakim and LL Cool J.

 

[konceptjones]

The Bridge Is Over/Word From Our Sponsor 12" came out in January 1987, the album came out in the summer of 87.

And The P Is Free was a remix.


Bottom line, Paid In Full had three instrumental tracks with no rapping. Still a great album, but it sounds better now than it did when it came out because some of the tracks were old when it was released.

Criminal Minded had some year-old tracks, but every song had rapping.

But yeah, you could say Paid In Full was "the best debut album" but we'd have to agree to disagree.

Criminal Minded came out in March of '87, not the summer. The P Is Free was the album version, but all of the original pressings of that single (South Bronx/P Is Free) had two different remix versions of South Bronx EXCEPT the UK release which had just the album version of South Bronx and the instrumental with P Is Free as the b-side

D.J. Scott La Rock - Blastmaster K.R.S. One & D-Nice - South Bronx

Explore songs, recommendations, and other album details for South Bronx by D.J. Scott La Rock - Blastmaster K.R.S. One & D-Nice. Compare different versions and buy them all on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

It's all listed there.

 

[Worldwide]

Yeah, I was in high school from 87-91 and it was a constant debate between KRS, Rakim and LL Cool J.

For sure. Big Daddy Kane and Kool G. Rap were definitely in the mix as well.

This cat I used to hang with back then would fight anyone who tried to tell him that G. Rap wasn't the top spitter...haha.

 

[konceptjones]

Yeah, I was in high school from 87-91 and it was a constant debate between KRS, Rakim and LL Cool J.

I was in high school from '86-90, we had the same debates until BDK came along. Then LL was no longer a part of the discussion.

 

[5 Grand]

Criminal Minded came out in March of '87, not the summer. The P Is Free was the album version, but all of the original pressings of that single (South Bronx/P Is Free) had two different remix versions of South Bronx EXCEPT the UK release which had just the album version of South Bronx and the instrumental with P Is Free as the b-side

D.J. Scott La Rock - Blastmaster K.R.S. One & D-Nice - South Bronx

Explore songs, recommendations, and other album details for South Bronx by D.J. Scott La Rock - Blastmaster K.R.S. One & D-Nice. Compare different versions and buy them all on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

Criminal Minded came out in the summer of 1987. Your source is wrong.

I remember when that album came out vividly.

It's all listed there.

I was in high school from '86-90, we had the same debates until BDK came along. Then LL was no longer a part of the discussion.

I remember when Kane came out, he was in the discussion but I always thought Rakim and KRS were better,

And LL was The GOAT when he dropped Bigger and Deffer (and the Going Back To Cali/Jack The Ripper single), but Walking With A Panther was a dud.

But Mama Said Knock You Out put him back in the discussion. When Mama Said Knock You Out dropped he had been around longer than anybody else and had a solid 4 album discography.

 

[Natural Born Sinners]

Big- Ready to die

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

Enter the 36 Chambers for a group. Illmatic, Ready to Die, or Its Dark and Hell is Hot for solo artists.

I think the problem with some of the other "debuts" is they weren't really introductions to the artist. To me, you got to give more points to cats that seemingly came out of nowhere and put up a classic.

That's why I wouldn't put Doggystyle or OB4CL at the top of my list in this area. Both were great and OB4CL is my personal favorite Hip Hop album, but in both cases the artists had major buzzes going into the album from past work and pretty heavy help from the machines behind them.

That's fair

 

[JUDAH]

 

[5 Grand]

Criminal Minded came out in March of '87, not the summer. The P Is Free was the album version, but all of the original pressings of that single (South Bronx/P Is Free) had two different remix versions of South Bronx EXCEPT the UK release which had just the album version of South Bronx and the instrumental with P Is Free as the b-side

D.J. Scott La Rock - Blastmaster K.R.S. One & D-Nice - South Bronx

Explore songs, recommendations, and other album details for South Bronx by D.J. Scott La Rock - Blastmaster K.R.S. One & D-Nice. Compare different versions and buy them all on Discogs.

www.discogs.com

It's all listed there.

Your source is wrong. Criminal Minded came out in the summer.

I used to stay up and tape the college radio shows every weekend. Criminal Minded definitely came out in the summer.