FEATURED The Club Shay Shay Thread
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The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
I'm calling BS. People try to play this both sides game when it comes to MJ and Lebron fanbases, and it's just not true. Just look at what you did. My statement was literally that it's silly to act like Jordan was a loser because he didn't win a championship until he got Pippen but ignore the fact that Lebron didn't win until he got Wade. That wasn't a statement to tear down Lebron or boost Jordan. They both needed help to win championships, so it's dumb to criticize either side for not getting it done alone. That's just a fact. Where is the stanning?
Also, name some the shit Lebron gets flack for that Jordan did too but was given a pass. I'll wait. I really want to know because I can name about 5 common criticisms of Lebron off the top of my head and MJ wasn't guilty of any of them. Again, you're just pushing this "Jordan fans act like he's perfect" nonsense. Who? Which fans? Because every fan I know acknowledges he got swept out of the playoffs multiple times, missed big shots, was likely a bad teammate at times, was a terrible owner, and potentially hurt a few careers when he as in Washington because he couldn't change his style of leadership to fit that team.
MJ's career FG% was 49.7. Ya'll be acting like MJ fans walk around thinking it was 100. lol
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The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
I mean if they are there pushing charitable or philanthropic agendas, that's dope. But if they are just there to be like "Yeah, I'm still down. I can be on the block," that's corny.
One of the biggest "Jordan never complained to the refs about calls". Mans went on a whole rant about how Detroit was terrible for the league when he was playing. You ask MJ stans if the man ever had a bad playoff or Finals game and they get memory loss. Ask them if MJ ever made the wrong play in a pivotal moment they claim it never happened. There's plenty shit MJ stans ignore or try to minimize about his career.
And while you may be open to criticism of MJ plenty others aren't. Just look at how his career is often framed of "he went 6 for 6" as if he only played 6 seasons. The other stuff you mentioned rarely comes up when folks talk about Jordan. It's his accomplishments mostly and very rarely an actual criticism that his stans will accept.
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The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
I think context matters bro. Everybody complains to the refs about calls. What people are saying is that MJ never pulled the same shit as Lebron. For example:
Like 1 or 2 times every game, Lebron will stay behind after a play and argue with the refs while his team his getting back on defense and facing a 4 on 5 situation. To my knowledge MJ never did that. He complained to the refs all the time, but not in over the top dramatic fashion and not in a way that actually put his team at a disadvantage.
Yes, people bring up that he went 6 for 6 because that's an accomplishment. It doesn't mean that people think he only played those seasons. Hell, his best individual seasons came before he won those championships, so again, that criticism makes no sense. That's like saying Lebron fans think he's only played 10 seasons because they like to bring up the fact that he has 10 Finals appearances. It just seems tome that people like to intentionally misrepresent the points that MJ fans make to paint them as unhinged. If I'm rattling down a list of his accomplishments, I will mention he went 6 for 6. That doesn't mean I don't acknowledge the 9 seasons he didn't win. lol
You acknowledge those but plenty others don't. Just cuz you do it don't mean you can assume others talk about MJ with the same clear lense. And lol at MJ never stayed back to complain to refs. You won't find an NBA player who hasn't done that. That's what I mean when some try to paint MJ with a "he never did this" thing. MJ saying he wanted the league to investigate the Pistons was just "normal complaining".
And as you said context matters. So when people only look at MJs career in the context of the winning seasons and not the other 9 it paints a distorted picture. And due to highlights being how a good portion of NBA fans remember Jordan now, all we get told is the story of his wins. Not his losses, mistakes, etc.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
lol Bruh what are we talking about here? I don't remember ever seeing MJ stand back and argue with a ref while a fast break was going the other way and his team was at a disadvantage. If you have proof that happened, please show it and I'll concede that point.
And I'm not understanding your Pistons point. They pretty much have admitted that since there was no flagrant foul rule back then, their strategy was that if they were going to foul Jordan to always do it as hard as possible. How is Jordan complaining about that treatment the same as Lebron throwing tantrums every time he's touched.
That's what I'm talking about. You're pushing a false equivalence that makes no sense. I agree there are over the top MJ stans. I'm just saying that ya'll be trying to equate the two fanbases when they aren't the same.
If you agree there are over the top MJ stans then what exactly are you debating for? That was my entire both. That both groups have fans that distort facts and ignore history for their own benefit. And lol getting at Bron for throwing tantrums when again MJ did the exact same shit. You can go on youtube right now and see compilations of it. You dropped that Celtics clip, which everyone with 2 eyes agrees was a blatant missed call...MJ has been flat out ejected arguing calls and jumping in a refs face. But that don't count as throwing a tantrums or putting your team at a disadvantage?
I brought up the Pistons to show the example of MJ never complaining, especially on a grand scale to be false. Nigga flat out said he was gonna talk to the commissioner about it. Now imagine a player today saying that same shit. It's nothing but talk of how soft they are. Jordan bitched and moaned to the refs same as any other player. Jordan has players saying the refs gave him undeserved calls too. Jordan flopped on defense too. But let some of his stans tell it none kf that ever happened.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
We're debating because you are talking like both fanbases are the same, and I disagree with that. Do they both have people that make extreme takes? Yes. Are both fanbases defined by those extremists in the same way? Not, not in my opinion.
Again, I've never seen anyone said MJ never complained about getting calls. I'm sure some crazy MJ stans have said it, but is that some common narrative among MJ fans? No, I don't believe it is. Anybody who watched MJ back in the day knows he got heated when he felt like he was cheated. All competitive players react that way. I really feel like that's just a strawman that people throw out so they can make videos like this:
I see that video and am like ok...and? I know MJ did all that, but which one of those was the level of dramatization we saw from Lebron in that Celtics clip?
We can dead this. We both agree that there are goofy people on both sides of the debate. We just seem to disagree on the prominence of those particular people within each fanbase. That's fine.
Elzo69Renaissance
These scars are the only real proof they could not
This shit took me out
That nigga Boyce a hater clout chaser abd scammer
Last I checked he lived in Bronzeville I ever see him out there ima smack the shit out of him
Elzo69Renaissance
These scars are the only real proof they could not
Also MJ told y’all years ago he gives no shit bout no goat talk
He 60 sitting on 4 billions traveling the world w his cubanita
Fuck he looking like sitting on Club Shay Shay
He barely does real media
He 60 sitting on 4 billions traveling the world w his cubanita
Fuck he looking like sitting on Club Shay Shay
He barely does real media
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
lol That's why I think it would be funny. It would be so out of character for him to pop up on a podcast and just speak his honest feelings about a lot of things. I don't believe for a second he doesn't care about the GOAT talk. I just believe he's savvy enough to know that staying above the fray publicly is the smart thing to do.
IP360
Doctorate & Ph.D in Bootyology
Uhh I've seen plenty MJ stans lose their minds. On tv and on social media. Both sides are turrible
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Agreed. Stans of all flavors say stupid shit. I didn't mean to imply MJ stans are any different in that regard.
I'm talking more about the fanbases in general and those people considered sensible. It's just my opinion that the Lebron fanbase is a little more rabid and unreasonable than the MJ fanbase. I understand I'm biased since I'm part of the MJ fanbase, but that's my honest take.
Like a lot of Lebron fans think we just hate dude. Hell, even Lebron came out and said that everyone wanted to see him fail. Shit that is part of the reason I dislike Lebron and his fans. What are you even talking about? As a MJ fan, I thought Lebron actually was going to be the GOAT. Dude came into the league and basically looked like Magic and MJ combined. How could a player like that not be the best ever? So I find the idea that we are all against him to be pretty weird. Hell, most bonafide Lebron haters I know were fans or at least supporters at one time.
Just as you said earlier the bold should be in proper context. He said that after blowing the NBA Finals against the Mavs when basically everyone not a Miami Heat fan did want him to fail. They was taking national polls about the shit lol.
I guess. Like I said my whole thing is the rewriting of history to pretend as if certain things just flat out didn't happen. That's annoying no matter what fan base it's coming from. But Jordan stans are special with it
Playmaker88
G Money is Cash
Yea hes straight bitch made when i dont watch and engage in your shit but it always shit
TTBF
OG
I have no dog in this fight but didn't that ref "retire" after doing that fuck shit and getting outed as a Celtics fan?