Those checks and balances only work if 1. People actually respect 2. People actually face consequences for violating them and 3. People can handle having to punish those close to them for violating said checks and balances. It would also have to accept a pretty black and white judgement factor on what is considered a violation because the moment nuance and exceptions due to certain circumstances are allowed then it's going to spiral...
OPINION oh boy here we go again
- Thread starter Race Jones
- Start date
Those checks and balances only work if 1. People actually respect 2. People actually face consequences for violating them and 3. People can handle having to punish those close to them for violating said checks and balances. It would also have to accept a pretty black and white judgement factor on what is considered a violation because the moment nuance and exceptions due to certain circumstances are allowed then it's going to spiral...
AZTG
OG
Ok but what you pretty much said is how every country works.
Regardless of the laws being good or bad, any country you live in has consequences for breaking those laws and so the majority of people dont break the laws and get it how they fit in.
Put in a good system, and the people will follow it.
This is not a theory either.
Canada is right here and run way better than the US. There are people in canada getting stupid rich with the industrialization going on and the real estate boom. So capatilism is alive and well and allowing people that work for it to get dumb rich. But also in Canada, people have universal health care, get paid a living wage as a part of unemployment, every kid has access too good public schools, etc.
Canada is consistently in the top 10 in every metric.
And Canada aint even the best at this. Social Democracy in Denmark is even better than Canada. Sweden is better than Denmark. Norway might be the best in the world.
This shit is not only happening, but countries have been doing it for close to half a century.
America is way behind and catching up. You can tell just by socialism starting to catch on here with the youth. The US has no choice but to adapt to a system similar to Canada because economics have changed in the last 20 years and now the rich get richer by making sure everyone has living wage instead of keeping the poor, poor like they used too.
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Race Jones
gangster. grace. alchemy
well this is a mack truck of horseshit
if you think racism will stop because Black ppl own more means of production then nigga youre more confused than i previously thought
see Black liberals' concept of “freedom” is that of: we too want to sell our labor power at a rate like that of white men & produce capital
when in actuality, true freedom is owning your own labor power and the labor provided serves the best interest of society
“me and some niggas r building”
lol
no yall niggas are simply copying white folks ideas and trying to consolidate power and im here to tell you the reigns of oppression do not lessen, just because the person in the drivers seat is Black
Black capitalism will never be a viable solution. ever
Mr BFK
Active Member
2 things people seldom acknowledge about capitalism is that:
1) human beings are motivated by incentives (mofos ain't working for free, nor should they)
2) asymmetric information (most problems with capitalism can be corrected by transparency)
even tho I disagree with op's stance on capitalism and the premise of this thread
we need to talk about shit like this more in our community..............topics like this should get the most burn
vs. the superficial shit most people like to waste time focusing on
the reason our healthcare system is so fucked up is because of the lack of transparency in pricing for health related services
people oversimplify the problem being attributed to capitalism............but they seldom recognize that capitalism isn't really practiced by the wealthy in America
they have a capitalist mindset where they get to extract resources from everyone else, and then they have a socialist mindset to support laws protecting their wealth thru cost sharing (which is the real problem)
and there are multiple examples of this
the US tax system
insurance pools
public defense/security
public infrastructure
1) human beings are motivated by incentives (mofos ain't working for free, nor should they)
2) asymmetric information (most problems with capitalism can be corrected by transparency)
even tho I disagree with op's stance on capitalism and the premise of this thread
we need to talk about shit like this more in our community..............topics like this should get the most burn
vs. the superficial shit most people like to waste time focusing on
the reason our healthcare system is so fucked up is because of the lack of transparency in pricing for health related services
people oversimplify the problem being attributed to capitalism............but they seldom recognize that capitalism isn't really practiced by the wealthy in America
they have a capitalist mindset where they get to extract resources from everyone else, and then they have a socialist mindset to support laws protecting their wealth thru cost sharing (which is the real problem)
and there are multiple examples of this
the US tax system
insurance pools
public defense/security
public infrastructure
AZTG
OG
Facts. This is what makes things so difficult for America.
For example, Denmark can do all this good shit cause they know its benefitting Danes. A few Africans and Middle Easterners might sneak in, but overall, the country is run by and for Danes.
America isnt like that though. America is made up of multiple races and rhe race in power is losing their minds now more than ever at the thought of making things fair for the other races. Hence Trump being president and likely winning a second term.
Race Jones
gangster. grace. alchemy
do tell me how YOU plan to obtain more resources and subvert this white patriarchal capital sys when Black “owners” still have to follow the laws, borrow money, and use commodities from an already white supremacist market?????
AZTG
OG
Fam we gon disagree.
Im not totally on @Race Jones side of the chick in op being wrong. Im not anti capitalism as race is, even though I once was. So im not going to take it that far.
But im just going point out a few things in your post. For example, there are a ton of reasons why health care is so expensive in the US, but lack of transperancy aint one of them.
Random drug companies in the US mass produce a drug and then the drugs get bottled and shipped. If those drugs, which got produced in the same assembly line, get shipped for use in america, the price ends up being $100 a pill. The bottled that get sent to lets say India end up selling for $5 a pill. Its the same drug, produced in the same assembly line. But here in the US, being that we are hyper capitalists, we dont put a ceiling on what the drugs can sell for. Keep in mind, this drug company is making profit on the pills they selling to India for $5 too, but they allowed to put predatory prices on the pills in the US, and they do. Cause like you said, human nature is a mfer. This is allowed because America allows lobbying and money in politics.
Another example. If I go get a checkup done with a ton of blood work and some cat scans, my insurance company gets billed like $150. If I dont have insurance and get the same exact work done, i get billed over a thousand. For the same exact work. This creates a predatory system again where people are forced into having health care.
And its not just health care. Take credit cards. In the US, its almost impossible to be find a card offering aprs under 25%. But take Visa in a Europe, and its almost impossible to find them offer an apr over 10%. Because the EU wont allow it.
Its the same company. Visa. And funny enough, its an American company. But they fuck americans with predatory interest rates, but in a random eu country, they keep rates low cause those countries wont allow them to prey on their citizens.
So again, our system here of hyper capitalism can only thrive by fucking over poor people and thats why its a bad system and needs to be replaced. As proven by the examples above.
Im not saying get rid of capitalism at all. Keep it and its incentives. Im saying put in place social government, that will keep capitalism in check and keep it from going out of control. put people first like other developed nations.
And if you talk to Canadians they still have issues with racism, police violence and poverty and corruption. So the shit ain't a cure all. Not everybody is going to thrive regardless of what system is in place and since the issue is creating a system that prevents those things then unless people somehow become devoid of what has driven humanity for thousands of years it will still create the same issues we are currently battling against.
You also have to consider the individual histories of those countries that make certain systems easier to adapt to than others. Without understanding that and the people that live here then it's gonna be like speaking a foreign language. America's history, especially involving race and class is very different from even Canada just across the border. So yes these things can be done but to assume it's just a copy and paste from what other countries have done is underselling just how much work it would require
Mr BFK
Active Member
the sad part is u think racism can be stopped with good intentions
if black people own more means of production, then that means we will have real alternatives instead of having to rely on a system run by people who don't really fuck with us
but the only way we can really build is to participate in capitalism
the flaw is that people like u play both sides..............u act as if evil will cease to exist by simply ignoring it and hoping evil will go away on it own
what I'm saying is that if we have resources, then we can protect ourselves without depending on the altruism of white people
the reason we haven't been as successful is because we have been so divided and racism thrives off our internal division
Tulsa/Rosewood wouldn't have happened so easily if there was a military force available to protect that community
well protection isn't free, that security has to be paid for............who better to pay for our own security then ourselves?
and yeah u oversimplified it again, but there are niggaz out here building for real for our communities
we're building schools
we're building security firms
we're building farms
we're building health centers and specialized hospitals
all funded by participating in capitalism..............meanwhile u ranting on the internet about how unfair everything is and advocating for black people to continue to be victims
AZTG
OG
Nothing is a cure all until AI takes over and wipes out humanity.
I dont think anyone is saying a change here puts us in utopia. Its just lets find a way to keep better and the US embracing something other than hyper capitalism will lead to better.
Mr BFK
Active Member
SMH @ u being naive enough to really think I would just give up such a lucrative strategy in an open forum to our competitors
the easy answer is to rely on own our laws, money, and commodities................hence my argument about racism being a worldwide problem that worldwide unity from black people would have to address
ironically most of the countries with raw commodities are owned/controlled by black people
but we don't participate in group economics which is how white people get to exploit us
Race Jones
gangster. grace. alchemy
racism will be stopped with good intentions? lmao when have i ever suggested ignoring or looking the other way when it comes to racism???
sigh* i dont feel like reading this capitalistic romance novel.
ill leave you to exploiting the same ppl you claim to be saving by using capitalism...a sys that only functions off exploitation.
whew* i know youre dizzy
Race Jones
gangster. grace. alchemy
I don't think it has to be an either/or situation. I don't think anyone would disagree that the idea of Black folks is being self sufficient is a bad thing while still acknowledging the ills of the current system in place we are basically forced to participate in. We have to have some sort of protection and something to fall back on, especially if you're gonna ask people to sacrifice and share more amongst each other. You can't assume everyone is at the same place so yeah we are gonna need some who have and do and continue take advantage of this capitalist system and build up what we can while we can while working towards something better
Mr BFK
Active Member
u say u disagree.............but u are actually supporting my argument
transparency (and the lack of shopping by customers) is why shit is so expensive
I don't disagree about the ills of hypercapitalism
but u forget the reason a drug pill even gets made is because there is a demand for it that is supported by dollars
the reason Americans ain't paying $5 for a pill is because we choose not to trust drugs coming from an outside market like India
who would u rather have doing ur surgery.........a doctor making $600K? or a doctor making $60K?
the reason ur blood work costs so much is because we never see the true bill to the hospital and ask health care providers what are the source of their costs
and ur point about credit even further reinforces my point about transparency
how many average citizens truly under how the prime rate works? how many people use alternative sources of credit? how many of us are willing to provide credit to each at lower rates when we can?
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And part of what I'm saying is that' in order for that change to happen the implementation of another system has to be specific to the US, it's history and current present as well. Just saying "abolish the system" is cool...but what next? How? When? Who is in charge? How do we prevent those in charge from becoming what we just came out of? There's a bunch of blanks that need to be filled in and often people saying to abolish the system don't have those answers. And that's cool but the thing Race either is missing or simply not acknowledging is asking people to follow a system on the blind faith it will work out, especially Black people, and then wondering why there's pushback or saying those who do push back are content and happy or sellouts when those questions arent able to be answered is being intellectually dishonest
AZTG
OG
Its not a pill coming from outside the country. Its the same pilled made here. It gets sold here for $100 and sold overseas for $5. Same exact pill.
And the same with health care. Your insurance company gets charged about 70% less for the same thing that you would get charged without insurance.
Call it transperancy if you want. End of the day, whatever we call it, Americas system allows corporstions and industries to prey on their citizens. That right there is a failure of governance. There needs to be a better balance between allowing people to get rich and the govt protecting people and nit letting them be prey.
And there is just as much innovation, if not more, in China than there is in America. We have to let go of these propaganda talking point that innovation is only driven by capitalism.
Cuba, being as poor as they are, have made more medical innovations than most of the world.
USSR sent the first sattelite to space.
Capitalism pushing innovation is a good talking point, but when you break it down you can see just as much innovation going on under communism.
And i dont like communism. Not pushing for it at all. Just pointing out facts.
AZTG
OG
I agree. Im not saying America should be Canada. All these social democratic countries are following their own versions of it. Fundementally, they are similar, but the implementations and details are different.
The US has to figure out its own version of social democracy. The US seems to be on its way to me
Mr BFK
Active Member
u never offered an alternative
so then what are u hoping will rescue Black people from the ills of a racist society (shit a racist world for that matter)?
all we've gotten so far from u is pseudo knowledge about how u think the world should work...............meanwhile I'm speaking on reality
racism isn't going to stop by wishing the shit away..........just like predators won't stop picking on prey if that prey refuses to adapt
and u keep referring to exploitation, yet u used a black woman legally selling a harmless product as the basis for this thread........u think she is really exploiting someone just for being good at marketing? SMH