NBA Offseason thread

[AZTG]

2 way player aint a real thing imo. I never fucked with that term.

You supposed to play both sides of the floor. Why are we celebrating people for playing defense and giving passes to players that dont You great on offense and trash on defense? Your rating goes down then. Cant be a top 5 player if you getting 25 but giving up 30 on the other end.

Same reason I always argued Curry wasnt the best player in the league even when he got back to back mvps.

I remember one time we was debating point guards and no one had Wall like top 7 and someone came in and said but hes a top 3 two way pg.

Sounds like a created stat to me.

 

[Dwayne]

2 way player aint a real thing imo. I never fucked with that term.

You supposed to play both sides of the floor. Why are we celebrating people for playing defense and giving passes to players that dont You great on offense and trash on defense? Your rating goes down then. Cant be a top 5 player if you getting 25 but giving up 30 on the other end.

Same reason I always argued Curry wasnt the best player in the league even when he got back to back mvps.

I remember one time we was debatint point guards and no one had Wall like top 7 and someone came in and said but hes a top 3 two way pg.

Sounds like a created stat to me.

Well you can 100% be a real two way player. It means a complete player

Harden ain’t. He plays no defense.
KL is
AD is a two way player
LBJ ain’t (anymore)

 

[Sage Wonder]

2 way player aint a real thing imo. I never fucked with that term.

You supposed to play both sides of the floor. Why are we celebrating people for playing defense and giving passes to players that dont You great on offense and trash on defense? Your rating goes down then. Cant be a top 5 player if you getting 25 but giving up 30 on the other end.

Same reason I always argued Curry wasnt the best player in the league even when he got back to back mvps.

I remember one time we was debating point guards and no one had Wall like top 7 and someone came in and said but hes a top 3 two way pg.

Sounds like a created stat to me.

But it's a reality though. We're talking about a league with the absolute best players in the world, of course it should be celebrated when a player does both at an elite level relative to the league.

 

[AZTG]

Well you can 100% be a real two way player. It means a complete player

Harden ain’t. He plays no defense.
KL is
AD is a two way player
LBJ ain’t (anymore)

I understand what you saying. I just dont agree with it.

To me its a term created to give offense only players a pass.

Taking what you said, defense never comes up when we talk about how good Harden is, people act like his defense being bad shouldnt matter cause hes not a two way player.

Imo that term should be thrown out. To be great you have to be good at both and if Harden is the #1 offense player but not even top 50 on defense his place in the league should be adjusted and he should be taken off the top 5. He aint in my top 5 btw. Not even sure if hes top 10. Thats a whole different debate though.

 

[Suckio Andretti]

 

[toheeb27]

Damn, the Porter family is cursed.

 

[AZTG]

But it's a reality though. We're talking about a league with the absolute best players in the world, of course it should be celebrated when a player does both at an elite level relative to the league.

It should be celebrated. If you do both at an elite level like Kawhi, AD, KD before the injury you should be top 5, and they are

If you above average offensively and great defensively, it should boost your standings. And it does. Look at Klay. His defense is the reason hes sometimes considered top 15.

My issue is the opposite doesnt happen. If you trash at defense and great offensively, we give them passes saying but hes not a 2 way player.

My issue is the label should get thrown away and lets judge players on how they play both.

Just by celebrating a player for being a 2 way player you inadvertantly give a pass to players who play no defense. Cause by doing that defense slowly gets turned into a specialty skill.

Thats just my 2 cents though.

 

[Mister]

It should be celebrated. If you do both at an elite level like Kawhi, AD, KD before the injury you should be top 5, and they are

If you above average offensively and great defensively, it should boost your standings. And it does. Look at Klay. His defense is the reason hes sometimes considered top 15.

My issue is the opposite doesnt happen. If you trash at defense and great offensively, we give them passes saying but hes not a 2 way player.

My issue is the label should get thrown away and lets judge players on how they play both.

Just by celebrating a player for being a 2 way player you inadvertantly give a pass to players who play no defense. Cause by doing that defense slowly gets turned into a specialty skill.

Thats just my 2 cents though.

It will always be that way because, at the end of the day, the game is about getting buckets. So anytime a player can get said buckets at an elite level, they will be celebrated.

 

[Mister]

 

[AP3.0]

defense doesn't put people in the seats

and usually, most players games suffer at the expense of doing something better than the other which is why 2 way players should be limited to a select few

@shutupGabi , the load management shit didn't start with LeBron per se, but people are going to give him the credit for it. Spurs had been doing it for years

Basically its sitting out star players against inferior teams so that they rest. When media members get a copy of active list, it usually states the reason a player is resting, well, one game, the team put "load management" as the reason he was sitting

 

[Mister]

 

[Chi-Town B]

Damn, the Porter family is cursed.

He's the lucky one, all the other had multiple ACL tears. Didn't one of his sisters have like 4 or 5 of them?

 

[Peace_79]

2 way player aint a real thing imo. I never fucked with that term.

You supposed to play both sides of the floor. Why are we celebrating people for playing defense and giving passes to players that dont You great on offense and trash on defense? Your rating goes down then. Cant be a top 5 player if you getting 25 but giving up 30 on the other end.

Same reason I always argued Curry wasnt the best player in the league even when he got back to back mvps.

I remember one time we was debating point guards and no one had Wall like top 7 and someone came in and said but hes a top 3 two way pg.

Sounds like a created stat to me.

A safety is not more impactful than quarterback

Individual defense and individual offense do Not have equal impact.

No matter how “purist” it feels to claim that they do.



Team defensive schemes and individual effort can make up for flaws in a players defense.

If you cant score you can barely stay in the floor.

 

[Dwayne]

A safety is not more impactful than quarterback

Individual defense and individual offense do Not have equal impact.

No matter how “purist” it feels to claim that they do.



Team defensive schemes and individual effort can make up for flaws in a players defense.

If you cant score you can barely stay in the floor.

Word to NE defense.

All them niggas become instant bums once they leave.

 

[Peace_79]

It will always be that way because, at the end of the day, the game is about getting buckets. So anytime a player can get said buckets at an elite level, they will be celebrated.

The game is about winning.

If you impact winning more than anyone else- you are the best player in the league.

I don’t care about your Free throw percentage or defensive net rating if you can’t lead your team past the first round.

 

[Mister]

The game is about winning.

If you impact winning more than anyone else- you are the best player in the league.

I don’t care about your Free throw percentage or defensive net rating if you can’t lead your team past the first round.

First round seems like a low standard if it's all about winning. Shouldn't winning it all be the standard then?

 

[Peace_79]

First round seems like a low standard if it's all about winning. Shouldn't winning it all be the standard then?

A) It was an example not rigorous standard to hold me to.

B) That’s a straw man. You better than that, fam.

Of course this isn’t zero sum.

MJ couldn’t win on the Bulls when they were trash. You don’t have to win a championship to have an outsized impact on winning.

But I’m sure you know that ...

 

[Mister]

A) It was an example not rigorous standard to hold me to.

B) That’s a straw man. You better than that, fam.

Of course this isn’t zero sum.

MJ couldn’t win on the Bulls when they were trash. You don’t have to win a championship to have an outsized impact on winning.

But I’m sure you know that ...

I was more confused by you quoting me and then emphasizing the winning angle. So I asked a legitimate question.

The point I was replying to had to do with elite offensive players, who happen to be weak on defense, being ranked as top players in the league.

 

[AZTG]

A safety is not more impactful than quarterback

Individual defense and individual offense do Not have equal impact.

No matter how “purist” it feels to claim that they do.



Team defensive schemes and individual effort can make up for flaws in a players defense.

If you cant score you can barely stay in the floor.

Ofcourse just in the spirit of debate yall jump in and insert things that have never been said.

Not 1 in post did i say offense and defense should be held equal.

Curry might be the worst starting pg when it comes to defense, i always said he was top 10 though, just said defense matters enough to where Curry will never be top 3 to me. Defense matters enough to me where a top 3 player has to be atleast good at defense. Same with harden even when he averages 36 and goes on a offensive tear like he did. And Llilard. and the list goes on.

My only point is when you give players props for what they are supposed to do by creating a label like two way player, it gives players that dont play defense a pass. Its not done on purpose, but it makes defense a specialty skill like post moves and just like you dont get negatively impacted for not having post moves, you dont get negatively impacted for not playing defense.

Im open to debate but dont add things I never said cause then you disproving a point that wasnt made and then what is we really doing? Haha

 

[Peace_79]

I was more confused by you quoting me and then emphasizing the winning angle. So I asked a legitimate question.

The point I was replying to had to do with elite offensive players, who happen to be weak on defense, being ranked as top players in the league.

That’s fair. I was really responding to @AZTG through your post.

In a way I agree with you. The game is, in effect, about getting buckets.

But that’s not because the two of us or the media just happen to like offense more than defense.


The league is “about getting buckets” because getting buckets impacts winning more than being an elite defender.