Playmaker88
My style is impetuous.. My defense is impregnable
Nah he wasnt..
Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson
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You guys are all making good points.
But lets go back to 1986/87 when Tyson was being trained by Cus D'Mato (sp?). Thats when Tyson was knocking people out with one punch. Some of his fights didn't last 1 minute. I remember circa 1985/86 they televised the Tyson/Marvis Frazier fight (Joe Fraizer's son) . The prefight was about an hour. The commentators talked about each fighter's style and they played clips from each other's past fights. If I recall the fight came on a Saturday afternoon on regular TV, meaning you didn't need cable.
Anyway, Tyson knocked him out in 31 seconds.
My point is, as great as Ali was, a 20 year old Tyson could have knocked out Ali with one punch.
Granted, a 30 year old Tyson couldn't beat Ali.
But lets go back to 1986/87 when Tyson was being trained by Cus D'Mato (sp?). Thats when Tyson was knocking people out with one punch. Some of his fights didn't last 1 minute. I remember circa 1985/86 they televised the Tyson/Marvis Frazier fight (Joe Fraizer's son) . The prefight was about an hour. The commentators talked about each fighter's style and they played clips from each other's past fights. If I recall the fight came on a Saturday afternoon on regular TV, meaning you didn't need cable.
Anyway, Tyson knocked him out in 31 seconds.
My point is, as great as Ali was, a 20 year old Tyson could have knocked out Ali with one punch.
Granted, a 30 year old Tyson couldn't beat Ali.
SKPJR
Active Member
Sonny Liston could have knocked out Ali with 1 punch but he couldn't catch him. Joe Frazier should have knocked Ali out with one punch but his chin and most importantly his will was too strong and he didnt. George Foreman most certainly could have knocked him out with 1 punch but Ali outsmarted him. Even when Ali was old and washed up Larry Holmes still couldn't drop him with 1 punch and he was nothing more than a human punching bag in that fight.
Tyson was a beast in his prime but so was Liston. Not only did Joe Frazier have rare knock out power but he had great boxing abilities as well. No one in boxing history had more pure power than Foreman and it didnt matter.
Yall keep telling me what Tyson could do. I'm telling you what Ali did do. Facts>>>>>>hypotheticals.
SKPJR
Active Member
Lol at comparing the level of competition. Lol at comparing beating Spinks to losing to Frazier. Joe Frazier is one of the best to ever lace them up. Michael Spinks wasnt shit. Tyson did deteriorate after the Spinks fight but Ali got better after the Frazier fight. You just proved my point.
Ali-Frazier was literally the fight of the century. Two undefeated champions who were both all time greats and still in their 20s. Ali came up during the greatest era of heavyweights and he dominated. The level of competition that he faced and beat only made him better. The lack of quality competition that Tyson faced helped to make him worse. Losing to Frazier and Norton made Ali a better fighter. Beating Spinks, Mitch Green and Carl Williams made Tyson a worse fighter. Losing to two great fighters got Ali ready for Foreman. Beating a series of bums set Tyson up for Buster Douglas. You cant be series with this bullshit smmfh.
36 year old Ali beating Leon Spinks>>>>>>>>22 year old Tyson beating Micheal Spinks.
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SKPJR
Active Member
You can make the argument that Ali should have retired after taking the title from Foreman. But there is no doubt that he should retired after taking the title from Spinks. Point is this. Ali regaining the title for the third time against Leon Spinks at 36 years old was more impressive than a 22 year old Tyson bullying weak ass Michael Spinks.
The Ali that took the title from Leon Spinks in 78 was a shell of the Ali that took the title from Liston in 64 and he still became world champion for the third time. With that said what he did against Leon Spinks>>>>>>>>>what Tyson did to Michael Spinks b/c at the end of the day Leon Spinks>>>>>>>Michael Spinks and a 22 year old fighter is supposed to be>>>>>>>a 36 year old fighter.
Miss me with bullshit @Duwop . You're better than this.
The Ali that took the title from Leon Spinks in 78 was a shell of the Ali that took the title from Liston in 64 and he still became world champion for the third time. With that said what he did against Leon Spinks>>>>>>>>>what Tyson did to Michael Spinks b/c at the end of the day Leon Spinks>>>>>>>Michael Spinks and a 22 year old fighter is supposed to be>>>>>>>a 36 year old fighter.
Miss me with bullshit @Duwop . You're better than this.
I hear what you're saying, but you gotta remember that Tyson's camp changed around the time he won the title. He was being trained by Cus D'Amato. D'Amato died a little over a year before Tyson became the youngest world heavyweight titleholder in history at the age of 20 years four months. Cus D'Amato died in November of 1985. After Cus D'Mato died Kevin Roony took over, then Don King and Jim Jacobs (a jew) took over and promised Tyson fame and fortune because "Black people need to stick together". Tyson fell for Don King's bullshit and one by one the people in his camp changed to the point where he was being managed and trained by jews like Jim Jacobs that knew nothing about boxing.
The Mike Tyson that was trained by Cus D'Mato or Kevin Rooney isn't the same Mike Tyson that was managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs who fought Buster Douglass.
SKPJR
Active Member
What in the fuck does Tyson being managed by Jews have to do with Ali facing and beating better competition during a stronger era and for a longer time? Wtf are you talking about??????
Nobody
Leader of the Joe Budden Gang #JBG
Tyson gets a lot of excuses for falling short (Cus died, Rooney left, King robbed him, Robin took advantage of him) the reality may be that he wasn't mentally as tough as we thought he was.
He was more of a bully in the ring and when faced with adversity in the ring he would revert to biting, trying to break arms and lying about his back being broke.
Tyson gives anybody problems in his prime but i'm sure a mentally tougher fighter like ali withstands the fury and does what buster did to him but while talking shit and getting in his head.
He was more of a bully in the ring and when faced with adversity in the ring he would revert to biting, trying to break arms and lying about his back being broke.
Tyson gives anybody problems in his prime but i'm sure a mentally tougher fighter like ali withstands the fury and does what buster did to him but while talking shit and getting in his head.
If you don't know by now, I'll tell you; jewish people are sleazy and rip people off. It's their nature.
They follow The Talmud which should be in your local library. You should read it.
SKPJR
Active Member
So you hate Jewish people. I dont fucking care. Since you decided to go on some anti Jewish hate tirade instead of answering my original question I'll ask it again. What in the fuck does Tyson being managed by Jews have to do with Ali facing and beating better competition during a stronger era and for a longer time?
1. The jews that managed Tyson were more concerned with his money than his state of mind or well being. I think Cus D'Amato really cared about Mike Tyson the person, not just the boxer. I think Don King and Jim Jacobs just saw dollar signs when they looked at Mike Tyson.
2. Tyson being managed by jews has absolutely nothing to do, "with Ali facing and beating better competition during a stronger era and for a longer time." But you'd have to admit that his managers and trainers had a lot to do with Tyson falling off. And let's not make it like Tyson fought nobodies. Michael Spinks, Razor Ruddock, Bonecrusher Smith were all contenders. He just knocked them out so it made them look like weaker fighters.
Having said all that, It seems like Ali fought tougher opponents. But Tyson was a beast when he was being trained by Cus D'Amato and/or Kevin Rooney.
SKPJR
Active Member
so why did you mention all of that bullshit just to turn around, repeat my own argument back to me only to dismiss your original position. fuck is wrong with? are you on drugs again or something????
Initially I said, "Tyson fell for Don King's bullshit and one by one the people in his camp changed to the point where he was being managed and trained by jews like Jim Jacobs that knew nothing about boxing."
That's a true statement and I'll stand by it.
But you asked, "What in the fuck does Tyson being managed by Jews have to do with Ali facing and beating better competition during a stronger era and for a longer time?"
Basically you changed the subject.
My point was, and is, the people in his camp changed from being managed by Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney to being managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs which had a detrimental effect on how he was being managed. He couldn't trust Don King or Jim Jacobs. Basically they didn't care about him and took his money.
Being managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs has nothing to do with the opponents Ali faced, but it had a negative effect on Tyson's career.
Reread my post, I never said being managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs had anything to do with the opponents Ali faced.
That's a true statement and I'll stand by it.
But you asked, "What in the fuck does Tyson being managed by Jews have to do with Ali facing and beating better competition during a stronger era and for a longer time?"
Basically you changed the subject.
My point was, and is, the people in his camp changed from being managed by Cus D'Amato and Kevin Rooney to being managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs which had a detrimental effect on how he was being managed. He couldn't trust Don King or Jim Jacobs. Basically they didn't care about him and took his money.
Being managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs has nothing to do with the opponents Ali faced, but it had a negative effect on Tyson's career.
Reread my post, I never said being managed by Don King and Jim Jacobs had anything to do with the opponents Ali faced.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Mike in his prime with Cus in his corner probably beats Ali. Patterson used that peek a boo style and it gave Ali trouble, and Mike was at one time the pinnacle of that style.
Yeah, Ali beat other hard hitters in the past like Foreman and Frazier, but none of them had the combination of other skills that Mike had (e.g., footwork, head movement, etc...).
Ali destroys Mike in his post Cus/Rooney era.
Yeah, Ali beat other hard hitters in the past like Foreman and Frazier, but none of them had the combination of other skills that Mike had (e.g., footwork, head movement, etc...).
Ali destroys Mike in his post Cus/Rooney era.
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Winston Barker
MrSlim1
Tyson lost to a journeymen in his prime. Never beat a fighter that any boxing fan would even consider great in their prime or his. Tyson is the 3rd best HW of his own era
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Mike was not in his prime when he lost to Douglas. Stop it. He didn't have a real team behind him. He didn't train well. He didn't even take the fight seriously. Douglas fought the fight of his life, so he deserves credit for winning, but it's a flat out lie to say that Tyson was at his best when he fought Douglas.
And people need to cut the "Tyson didn't fight anyone" shit out. So the fuck what. He destroyed most of the people he did fought regardless of their ability, and if you actually watched the fights, you can't question his abilities. What other heavyweight had his combination of speed, footwork, head movement, power, and boxing IQ? Name one. Ali was great, but even he didn't exhibit everything that Tyson did.
Winston Barker
MrSlim1
Here goes the tyson excuses. I know u love the nostalgia. Fighters loss their trainers all the time. That his fault he couldn't stay focused . Tyson didnt beat a great fighter in their prime. Larry holmes is his best win. The term flabby and sick came from a 38 year old holmes . Hell a 200 year old George foreman gave holyfield a better fight than tyson did. Stop with the nostalgia and look at the resume. And stop making excuses for him. He didnt reach his full potential. . Lewis and Holyfield are both higher on the all time great HW list than tyson. Oh yea anf they are both older and both washed Mike.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
You get no argument from me when it comes to Tyson's ability to stand on his own. He couldn't do it. He needed the right people behind him. So yes, Ali and plenty of people were way ahead of him when it comes to that.
But you simply are full of shit if you say Tyson was at his best against Lewis and Holyfield. That is objectively false. Go look at the fight with between Tyson and Lennox. Tyson was not the same fighter. No head movement at all, which would be essential against a fighter that had a reach advantage. The dude had loss two years of his life to jail and had to climb back and then he was was strung out when he fought Lewis. You can call those excuses if you want, but they are facts, and you can't deny the impact there. For goodness sake, they said Mike was mixing coke and anti-psychotics when he fought Lewis. Again call that shit an excuse if you want, but you really going to sit here and argue that a fighter is at his best when he's doing that shit?