Kyle Rittenhouse Trial (Jacob Blake Protest Shooting)

The Lonious Monk said:
It's not. Like I said, this is Zimmerman or the Arbery cases all over again. Armed people antagonizing others and then trying to claim self defense when those others react.
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It's not like those situations. Both of them ran away from people pursuing them, then eventually tried to fight off the people after them.

If you want to say they all involved a person unnecessarily having a gun...ok. But the interactions don't look to be the same at all.

Also, let's not make up a story just to support what we want to be true. What did Kyle say or do to the guy to provoke him?
 
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Bow to Royalty said:
It's not like those situations. Both of them ran away from people pursuing them, then eventually tried to fight off the people after them.

If you want to say they all involved a person unnecessarily having a gun...ok. But the interactions don't look to be the same at all.

Also, let's not make up a story just to support what we want to be true. What did Kyle say or do to the guy to provoke him?
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The bold is exactly what I'm talking about. And I didn't make up a story. Kyle and the other right wingers are being provocative simply by showing up with guns. Imagine you're out doing something, and someone just pops up and follows you around openly toting a gun. That person doesn't have to say anything to you to put you on alert. His very presence with a deadly weapon is all it takes make the situation precarious. Now add to that the fact that he was admitedly part of a group that was out there antagonizing the protesters.

No one knows exactly what was said to pop things off, but the one thing we do know is that nobody would have died that day if Kyle wasn't in a completely different state walking around brandishing a gun that he wasn't even legally allowed to have.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
The bold is exactly what I'm talking about. And I didn't make up a story. Kyle and the other right wingers are being provocative simply by showing up with guns. Imagine you're out doing something, and someone just pops up and follows you around openly toting a gun. That person doesn't have to say anything to you to put you on alert. His very presence with a deadly weapon is all it takes make the situation precarious. Now add to that the fact that he was admitedly part of a group that was out there antagonizing the protesters.

No one knows exactly what was said to pop things off, but the one thing we do know is that nobody would have died that day if Kyle wasn't in a completely different state walking around brandishing a gun that he wasn't even legally allowed to have.
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If that's the only similarity though, I wouldn't compare it to Arbery or Martin. Those were 2 people minding their own business when an armed person chased them.

The situation you gave is still way different, and making up a story. That's an armed person followimg me. If we can't say what the shooter did to the victim to antagonize him, then we can't say he was justified in attacking him. You saying Kyle did something to Rosenbaum? Followed him?
 
There's a whole lot of extra talk. Let's focus. You can't attack someone without a legal justification. What was Rosenbaum's legal justification for attacking Rittenhouse?

Rittenhouse's justification from what's out so far is: He ran away from Rosenbaum who was trying to attack him. Once Rosenbaum caught up, he attacked him/reached for his gun (witness testimony and video support this). That's self-defense unless y'all can give Rosenbaum's justification for attacking Kyle.

If facts, change opinions can to. But that seems like all the facts out so far unless y'all got something new.

THESE AREN'T LEGAL JUSTIFICATIONS FOR ATTACKING HIM:

He shouldn't have had the gun
He shouldn't have been out there
He was at a Trump rally
He said Blue Lives Matter
He was out there fucking with people
He crossed state lines with a gun

All those can be things he did that you don't agree with, or that are wrong. But they're not a legal pass to harm him.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
If that's the only similarity though, I wouldn't compare it to Arbery or Martin. Those were 2 people minding their own business when an armed person chased them.

The situation you gave is still way different, and making up a story. That's an armed person followimg me. If we can't say what the shooter did to the victim to antagonize him, then we can't say he was justified in attacking him. You saying Kyle did something to Rosenbaum? Followed him?
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The protesters are people minding their own business. See your problem is you seem to be doing the same thing as right wingers and are acting like the protesters are doing something inherently wrong. They aren't. So an armed person approaching them while they are protesting is no different than an armed person approaching a kid walking home from the store or an armed person approaching a jogger. It's the same shit.

I already told you what Kyle did to receive that response, you just don't want to accept it. Again, if you're minding your own business and someone you don't know and don't trust keeps popping up around you with a loaded weapon, that's all it takes for most people to feel uncomfortable and to want that person away from them. You really think people would attack and run down a guy with an assault weapon if they didn't feel intimidated at all?
 
The Lonious Monk said:
The protesters are people minding their own business. See your problem is you seem to be doing the same thing as right wingers and are acting like the protesters are doing something inherently wrong. They aren't. So an armed person approaching them while they are protesting is no different than an armed person approaching a kid walking home from the store or an armed person approaching a jogger. It's the same shit.

I already told you what Kyle did to receive that response, you just don't want to accept it. Again, if you're minding your own business and someone you don't know and don't trust keeps popping up around you with a loaded weapon, that's all it takes for most people to feel uncomfortable and to want that person away from them. You really think people would attack and run down a guy with an assault weapon if they didn't feel intimidated at all?
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Nah, I'm not using that right wing strategy. I'm being honest though.I feel like you're talking in generalities and avoiding what's relevant. Like "the protesters are people minding their own business." That's obviously and undeniably not true about all the protesters...we can agree on that? Or do I need to show the damage they did because I don't think lighting someone's business on fire and stealing from places is "minding your own business".

So since the protesters are a diverse group, let's stop painting them in broad strokes and look at what's relevant. Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum is on film daring someone to shoot him and pushing a dumpster that's on fire towards people. So it's possible he wasn't one of the "minding my business protesters".

So without generalities or making up things with no support...what did Rittenhouse do to Rosennaum to give a legal justification to attack him? That's all I'm looking for.
 
Bow to Royalty said:
Nah, I'm not using that right wing strategy. I'm being honest though.I feel like you're talking in generalities and avoiding what's relevant. Like "the protesters are people minding their own business." That's obviously and undeniably not true about all the protesters...we can agree on that? Or do I need to show the damage they did because I don't think lighting someone's business on fire and stealing from places is "minding your own business".

So since the protesters are a diverse group, let's stop painting them in broad strokes and look at what's relevant. Rittenhouse and Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum is on film daring someone to shoot him and pushing a dumpster that's on fire towards people. So it's possible he wasn't one of the "minding my business protesters".

So without generalities or making up things with no support...what did Rittenhouse do to Rosennaum to give a legal justification to attack him? That's all I'm looking for.
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You're definitely being disingenuous and you're definitely using right wing talking points. The bold is an example. The vast majority of protests have been peaceful. There's not proof the people he had static with were burning anything.

time.com

93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds

The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project analyzed more than 7,750 BLM demonstrations in all 50 states and D.C.
time.com time.com

Anyone who instantly tries to tie protesters to burning down buildings is not trying to have an honest discussion.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
You're definitely being disingenuous and you're definitely using right wing talking points. The bold is an example. The vast majority of protests have been peaceful. There's not proof the people he had static with were burning anything.

time.com

93% of Black Lives Matter Protests Have Been Peaceful, New Report Finds

The Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project analyzed more than 7,750 BLM demonstrations in all 50 states and D.C.
time.com time.com

Anyone who instantly tries to tie protesters to burning down buildings is not trying to have an honest discussion.
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I said not all the protesters are peaceful, and you linked me to an article saying 93% of protests are peaceful. What do you think the other 7% are? I don't even get that as a counter argument.

We know this protest wasn't peaceful, and that they were burning things. That's what I mean by you trying to paint with broad strokes to avoid what's relevant. We're talking about the Kenosha protest which we know involved burning businesses. So which one of us isn't trying to have an honest discussion? You're trying to avoid acknowledging a protest being non-peaceful by bringing up a nationwide average. Completely irrelevant.

And "There's not proof the people he had static with were burning anything."

Here's a video of Rosenbaum pushing a burning dumpster. He's the short bald guy in the red shirt

 
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