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The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: Joe Biden is the 46th President of the United States

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DMorgan said:
I've been saying fuck all politicians since the IC in terms of the internet. I don't complain about politicians cause I see them for who they really are.

I'm of the opinion ALL politicians are corrupt and operate from that stance.
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Cmon fam. Only Sith deal in absolutes. That is lazy analysis.


We should let the facts be our guide. And the fact is that currently 95% of politicians are corrupt. But clearly it isn’t an absolute, axiomatic constant that cannot be altered.

Let me ask you a question.

Do you actually think AOC is corrupt and represents corporate interests?
 
Peace_79 said:
Cmon fam. Only Sith deal in absolutes. That is lazy analysis.


We should let the facts be our guide. And the fact is that currently 95% of politicians are corrupt. But clearly it isn’t an absolute, axiomatic constant that cannot be altered.

Let me ask you a question.

Do you actually think AOC is corrupt and represents corporate interests?
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Corporate interests aren't the only way a politician can be corrupt. All politicians play the game in one way or another and the game involves corruption or they IMO wouldn't be there.
 
DMorgan said:
Corporate interests aren't the only way a politician can be corrupt. All politicians play the game in one way or another and the game involves corruption or they IMO wouldn't be there.
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You know they are just human beings and they were just average people before they became politicians - they weren’t transformed into evil sorcerers.

Some are good people, some are bad.
Some have principles. Some do not.

Do the facts, their history, behavior and motivations matter at all in your assessment of them?

Or are they guilty by virtue of being elected as a representative of the people?
 
Peace_79 said:
You know they are just human beings and they were just average people before they became politicians - they weren’t transformed into evil sorcerers.

Some are good people, some are bad.
Some have principles. Some do not.

Do the facts, their history, behavior and motivations matter at all in your assessment of them?

Or are they guilty by virtue of being elected as a representative of the people?
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They're guilty because they are in a completely dirty game and there is no way a person can be in the game of politics and not get dirty at some point.
 
DMorgan said:
They're guilty because they are in a completely dirty game and there is no way a person can be in the game of politics and not get dirty at some point.
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Can you even comprehensively define what you mean by “dirty”?

Could you provide me any empirical evidence that suggests that ALL people (no matter who they are) who choose to become politicians will axiomatically become whatever your definition of “dirty” happens to be?


So “a group of people are inherently ‘dirty’ by virtue of being associated with that group.”

Just because.

You know what that sounds like right?



This is your purely subjective opinion. Worse yet, it is an opinion that leaves us with no option, whatsoever, to move forward.

Let’s assume your unsubstantiated opinion is correct.

What is the solution?
 
Peace_79 said:
Can you even comprehensively define what you mean by “dirty”?

Could you provide me any empirical evidence that suggests that ALL people (no mat they who they are) who choose to become politicians will axiomatically become whatever your definition of “dirty” happens to be?


So “a group of people are inherently ‘dirty’ by virtue of being associated with that group.”

Just because.

You know what that sounds like right?



This is your purely subjective opinion. Worse yet, it is an opinion that leaves us with no option, whatsoever, to move forward.

Let’s assume your unsubstantiated opinion is correct.

What is the solution?
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Breaking laws that govern politicians or looking the other way on some shit they being representatives of the people they shouldn't = Dirty
 
Peace_79 said:
Ok. I agree with that definition.

I vehemently disagree that a Congress Woman like AOC does or will ever do that. In fact her behavior is quite the opposite
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You sure about that?

Aoc and bernie rail against super pacs...well except for the super pacs that supporr them. I would love it if they came publicly out and said that if youre a super pac that donates to me youre dead wrong.

So everybody is dirty to an extent...the question is how much. If a purity test is a determining factor for you so be it (and i happen to vehemently agree with bernie when he says we need to massively lessen special interests influence and involvement in politics).

But if some purity test or third rail issue stops us from kicking trump out of the white house then shame on us.

And none of the things you care about will get done in our lifetime.
 
25centsandwich said:
You sure about that?

Aoc and bernie rail against super pacs...well except for the super pacs that supporr them. I would love it if they came publicly out and said that if youre a super pac that donates to me youre dead wrong.

So everybody is dirty to an extent...the question is how much. If a purity test is a determining factor for you so be it (and i happen to vehemently agree with bernie when he says we need to massively lessen special interests influence and involvement in politics).

But if some purity test or third rail issue stops us from kicking trump out of the white house then shame on us.

And none of the things you care about will get done in our lifetime.
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Two different issues here.

One - you believe politicians like AOC, Ro Khanna, Bernie Sanders etc are “dirty” AKA committing illegal acts or blindly allowing illegal acts to take place to protect their colleagues.

I have to ask how well you know the record and platform of any of the progressives in Congress based on your premise. My guess is you know very little about their entire purpose, public profiles, and history with regards to this issue. The notion that someone like AOC could do what you suggested an not have her entire career torched is laughable. Frankly - I think the notion that she would do so, from a moral perspective is pretty ridiculous as well.

The entirety of the Democratic Establsihment, Republican Establishment, Healthcare Industrial Complex and All Corporate Interests are extremely invested in seeing her fail. From Ads on TV in Social Media, to embellishing small issues, to fear mongering, to flat out lies about them, to appeals for aggressive racism and bigotry against them.

And this isn’t the 1970s. Everything these politicians do has a microscope on it. Which fuels that machine.

AOC got blamed for “hypocrisy“ because she got a Haircut. You think she could commit a crime and it would get swept under the rug? Or her people would let her get away with it?

Or she would say take a bribe from an Oil company and sabotage the Green New Deal after she drafted the legislation, talked for years about not taking corporate money, and built a social media empire - millions strong off of those values. It is just not feasible.


Second - you believe we could lose to Trump because of a “Purity Test”. You will have to define what you mean by this. But generally I would say that if we put Joe Biden up against Trump we will have failed the “common sense” test. Trump has way to much material to destroy him and Joe Biden can barely get out an intelligible sentence to respond without stuttering.
 
Peace_79 said:
Two different issues here.

One - you believe politicians like AOC, Ro Khanna, Bernie Sanders etc are “dirty” AKA committing illegal acts or blindly allowing illegal acts to take place to protect their colleagues.

I have to ask how well you know the record and platform of any of the progressives in Congress based on your premise. My guess is you know very little about their entire purpose, public profiles, and history with regards to this issue. The notion that someone like AOC could do what you suggested an not have her entire career torched is laughable. Frankly - I think the notion that she would do so, from a moral perspective is pretty ridiculous as well.

The entirety of the Democratic Establsihment, Republican Establishment, Healthcare Industrial Complex and All Corporate Interests are extremely invested in seeing her fail. From Ads on TV in Social Media, to embellishing small issues, to fear mongering, to flat out lies about them, to appeals for aggressive racism and bigotry against them.

And this isn’t the 1970s. Everything these politicians do has a microscope on it. Which fuels that machine.

AOC got blamed for “hypocrisy“ because she got a Haircut. You think she could commit a crime and it would get swept under the rug? Or her people would let her get away with it?

Or she would say take a bribe from an Oil company and sabotage the Green New Deal after she drafted the legislation, talked for years about not taking corporate money, and built a social media empire - millions strong off of those values. It is just not feasible.


Second - you believe we could lose to Trump because of a “Purity Test”. You will have to define what you mean by this. But generally I would say that if we put Joe Biden up against Trump we will have failed the “common sense” test. Trump has way to much material to destroy him and Joe Biden can barely get out an intelligible sentence to respond without stuttering.
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First- It's not illegal for super pacs to support you. Every major politician or consticuency has a super pac supporting them...biden, bernie, trump, clinton, everyone. Yet only bernie, aoc, and the like rail against super pacs that support everyone else while not acknowleging the super pacs that contribute millions to ads supporting them. I find that dirty:

publicintegrity.org

9 things to know about Bernie Sanders

Update, April 8, 2020: Bernie Sanders has suspended his presidential campaign. After wowing the Democratic electorate in 2016, Bernie Sanders is back for another White House run. “What I promise to do is, as I go around the country, is to take the values that all of us in Vermont are proud of —...
publicintegrity.org publicintegrity.org

As far as AOC goes...we'll see. Word is that the progressives are already winking and nodding to groups to use their money in primary fights against moderates. What i do know she has no real legislative success yet or progressive havent really shown the ability to turn red seats blue like the moderates did in 2018.

But i guess everybodys bought and paid for except a few precious progressives...lol.

Bidens background on this issue were good enough for obama to select him as vp. Clintons were good enough for obama to endorse her. But i guess obama is on the take too.

:kobe:

As far as the mainstream media persecution of the progressives...again laughable. That doesnt stop aoc from going on and sniping biden because he doesnt pass her progressive litmus test. Or their supporters savaging moderates online because they dont pass their crazy ass litmus test like beto on open borders and now warren for collaborating with banks which was literally one of her jobs in the senate.

And everybody lobbies...oil companies, enviromentalists, renewable energy companies, health insurance industry, etc. You chose the most extreme example. Didnt stop the obama administration from trying to end oil subsidies and limit emissions. Nearly every moderate presidential candidate is campaigning on a public option...the health industry cant be too happy with that.


Secondly- doesnt matter who we "put up" against trump. Biden is still up in nearly every major national poll despite his public record and private dealings being on put on blast. If bernie wins iowa and flips it...good for him. I will root and vote for him against trump. Do you think aoc and bernie supporters will do the same?
 
25centsandwich said:
Do you think aoc and bernie supporters will do the same?
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I’ll answer the last question first because it’s the easiest.

ABSOLUTELY!

And Bernie has said so like 50 times. Which is how I know you haven’t really been paying attention to him or perhaps even watching the debates. It appears a lot of your idea of him has been provided to you by the media.
 
Peace_79 said:
I’ll answer the last question first because it’s the easiest.

ABSOLUTELY!

And Bernie has said so like 50 times. Which is how I know you haven’t really been paying attention to him or perhaps even watching the debates. It appears a lot of your idea of him has been provided to you by the media.
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Good to know. And i dont think i ever insinuated bernie himself wouldnt support the nominee...but we all know how his supporters, some progressives, and the hotep crowd are...hopefully they feel the same as you
 
I’ll admit, Bloomberg knows how to talk about black voters without sounding condescending. Still too early for me to get behind this dude tho.
 
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