The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: Joe Biden is the 46th President of the United States

[AP2.5]

Netflix made $300M last year and didnt pay any taxes

share those accounts b

 

[Mister]

 

[Peace_79]

Netflix made $300M last year and didnt pay any taxes

share those accounts b

Wait wait fam ... you aren’t suggesting we, instead, overtax them by asking them to pay a penny or MORE!!! in taxes - are you?

 

[AP2.5]

Wait wait fam ... you aren’t suggesting we, instead, overtax them by asking them to pay a penny in taxes - are you?

im picking up what you putting down

by next month, my hope is that i will be subscription less and will find other means to watch what I want.

a white chick i work with dont pay for shit and always be like felicia looking for the hook up. I tried having a code but that shit only get you so far. These companies continue to have price hikes and we dont have a say in the matter.

Things will be challenging for a spell, but that's worth it to try and do my part to stick it to the man

 

[25centsandwich]

You make a few broad stroke generalizations without offering any stategies or tactics.

Of course we want a vibrant and productive middle class.


The question is HOW DO WE GET THERE.

I say put more money in the hands of the people and let them innovate, le them thrive, let them start businesses, let them spend into the economy.

You say that’s “bullshit”. I’ll ask you to explain why you think that is the case.


How can you say that taxing multinational corporation‘s is a “small part of the problem”?

You do know that during the most prosperous time American history the tax rate average around 90% for the wealthy?

Corporations now pay 10% of the share in Tax Revenue while production is at historic heights. Who drives that production - American workers.

Yet Wages have been stagnant for 40 years

Corporations used to pay 30% of tax Revenue.
THIRTY PERCENT.


You call 20% difference in tax revenue, Trillions of Dollars, a “small part of the equation”???

Help me understand that logic ...

“Corporations won’t like this”

“Corporations won’t like that”


You seem to operate from the position that corporations are omnipotent. This is not the case. They are literally constructs of the government and only exist because of the people who voluntary compensate them. They were actually invented to serve the best interests of the people not their share holders.

Legislation can be structured in such a way that disallows corporations to pass all costs down to consumers or refuse pay a living wage. As we transition to an age of automation; again it is the job of a representative government to architect solutions and mechanisms to preserve the well being of the people it serves.

This hasn’t been the case NOT because, it is inherently impossible. It is not the case because coronations have bought our government; in effect transforming our democracy into an Oligarchy.

No deal ... Fuck that.

A Democracy is supposed to work for the people not a handful of Billionaires.

Youre saying a bunch of different things here...some of which i never claimed

Fact of the matter is more and more companies were moving overseas to avoid our corporate tax rate. We were going to lose trillions of dollars of revenue either way without a competitive tax rate. If an amazon decided to acquire a canadian company and move their hq to toronto we lose out on that tax revenue either way AND the jobs that the hq provides. Thats why even some democrats wanted to lower the corporate tax rate. Either way were not getting that revenue.

Im not saying that corporations should pay 0 tax...im not even saying that corporations should pay this current tax rate. Im saying that our tax rates have to make sense and be competitive in a gloabal economy. A 15-20% corporate tax along with a reduction of subsidies, tax breaks, etc would be ideal imo.

Its not a matter of "corporations wont like this"...its a matter of simple economics. Again if corporations are overtaxed and cant make a profit...theyre going to raise prices, cut jobs or ship jobs overseas. Or foreign companies can undercut us so bad to where we cant compete (see auto industry decades ago). A trickle up economic system only works when the ones at the top are active participants in the system just like trickle down economics.

It doesnt have to be an either/or proposition. We can raise taxes in a way that makes sense and generate revenue without making it punitive and still fosters investment. Hell it was a hero democrat (kennedy) that first started to the conversation to cut income taxes. Canada which provides universal health care among other entitlements has a corporate tax rate much lower than ours. We were still adding to the deficit when corporate taxes were at 30% anyway.

 

[25centsandwich]

You mentioned several things that I agree that we need.

“What we need to be doing is lowering the cost of tuition, pharmeceuticals, health care administration, housing etc. That along with government assistance from the wealthy taking on a bigger tax burden can get us to a place where more money is going into our pockets to stimulate the economy.”

All those programs take funding - Including from corporations; and they take appropriate Legislation. Yet you appear to reject this premise.

How, then, do you propose the achieve your stated goals without the massive revenue earned from corporations to pay their fair share in taxes ( due to the mythical fear of ‘over taxation’ ); and without an aggressive progressive policy mandate ie - with a lukewarm moderate political agenda?

I reject the premise? Not sure where you got that...an aggressive progressive policy is taxing us all more which bernie wants to do (and i like bernie).

If the cost of tuition, health care admin, housing keeps rising at ridiculous levels, it doesnt matter how much we tax billionaires and corporations...the buck is going to be passed to us eventually.

 

[Peace_79]

Youre saying a bunch of different things here...some of which i never claimed

Fact of the matter is more and more companies were moving overseas to avoid our corporate tax rate. We were going to lose trillions of dollars of revenue either way without a competitive tax rate. If an amazon decided to acquire a canadian company and move their hq to toronto we lose out on that tax revenue either way AND the jobs that the hq provides. Thats why even some democrats wanted to lower the corporate tax rate. Either way were not getting that revenue.

Im not saying that corporations should pay 0 tax...im not even saying that corporations should pay this current tax rate. Im saying that our tax rates have to make sense and be competitive in a gloabal economy. A 15-20% corporate tax along with a reduction of subsidies, tax breaks, etc would be ideal imo.

Its not a matter of "corporations wont like this"...its a matter of simple economics. Again if corporations are overtaxed and cant make a profit...theyre going to raise prices, cut jobs or ship jobs overseas. Or foreign companies can undercut us so bad to where we cant compete (see auto industry decades ago). A trickle up economic system only works when the ones at the top are active participants in the system just like trickle down economics.

It doesnt have to be an either/or proposition. We can raise taxes in a way that makes sense and generate revenue without making it punitive and still fosters investment. Hell it was a hero democrat (kennedy) that first started to the conversation to cut income taxes. Canada which provides universal health care among other entitlements has a corporate tax rate much lower than ours. We were still adding to the deficit when corporate taxes were at 30% anyway.

You lost me at - multinational corporations “can’t make a profit”.

That’s hilarious. And it is this incredibly dishonest framing that shapes public perception on this Issue.

Cmon man. Do you honestly think Amazon would struggle to make a profit if they actually paid taxes?

And do you actually think Amazon is going to move HQ to Canada to prevent paying taxes?

What does that do to their brand and image?

The Trillion Dollar company to cheap to pay their fair share in taxes...


How much would that cost them to do?
How would that change their business model?

I see that as a terrible business move.

Regarding your other points; I honestly have no problem finding a balance with the tax code. That is fine with me. As long as we agree that corporations should pay their fair share in taxes.

I also think a wealth tax would help matters as well.

 

[Peace_79]

I reject the premise? Not sure where you got that...an aggressive progressive policy is taxing us all more which bernie wants to do (and i like bernie).

If the cost of tuition, health care admin, housing keeps rising at ridiculous levels, it doesnt matter how much we tax billionaires and corporations...the buck is going to be passed to us eventually.

if you are saying we need policies to address these things AND we need to tax everyone (including coronations AND the middle class) to fund them; than we agree.

The thrust of your previous responses seemed to be arguing the idea of taxing corporations. That is what I was rebutting

 

[Mister B.]

Why is Klobuchar still in this race?

 

[25centsandwich]

You lost me at - multinational corporations “can’t make a profit”.

That’s hilarious. And it is this incredibly dishonest framing that shapes public perception on this Issue.

Cmon man. Do you honestly think Amazon would struggle to make a profit if they actually paid taxes?

And do you actually think Amazon is going to move HQ to Canada to prevent paying taxes?

What does that do to their brand and image?

The Trillion Dollar company to cheap to pay their fair share in taxes...


How much would that cost them to do?
How would that change their business model?

I see that as a terrible business move.

Regarding your other points; I honestly have no problem finding a balance with the tax code. That is fine with me. As long as we agree that corporations should pay their fair share in taxes.

I also think a wealth tax would help matters as well.

You missed my point completely. If that corporation taxes are raised, they're going to look for cheap labor, raise prices etc to increase or maintain profits. That's just business.

I used amazon as an example but you can apply it to cvs or burger king or any of the companies that did it or were eventually gonna follow suit. My overarching point was why would these companies go to canada of all places to avoid an american corporate tax?

And amazon is too cheap to pay federal taxes now...if the corporate tax rate was 30% how much of that would they actually pay after tax breaks...15%, 10%? How much state and local tax would they avoid to offset? Doesnt sound like theyre too ashamed or their slick pr team cant handle it.

Again im all for corporations paying a fair share (and an increase of what they pay now) so its good we agree there.

But where progressives kill me is when they think tax increase on the wealthy or corporations are going to be the end all be all and anybody that has other solutions in addition to that is the enemy. If you want to give us massive entitlements (many of which i agree with) just be real...youre going to increase taxes on everyone eventually. And dont play victim when some dont want to do that and want to go a different way or at a slower pace.

 

[Peace_79]

You missed my point completely. If that corporation taxes are raised, they're going to look for cheap labor, raise prices etc to increase or maintain profits. That's just business.

I used amazon as an example but you can apply it to cvs or burger king or any of the companies that did it or were eventually gonna follow suit. My overarching point was why would these companies go to canada of all places to avoid an american corporate tax?

And amazon is too cheap to pay federal taxes now...if the corporate tax rate was 30% how much of that would they actually pay after tax breaks...15%, 10%? How much state and local tax would they avoid to offset? Doesnt sound like theyre too ashamed or their slick pr team cant handle it.

Again im all for corporations paying a fair share (and an increase of what they pay now) so its good we agree there.

But where progressives kill me is when they think tax increase on the wealthy or corporations are going to be the end all be all and anybody that has other solutions in addition to that is the enemy. If you want to give us massive entitlements (many of which i agree with) just be real...youre going to increase taxes on everyone eventually. And dont play victim when some dont want to do that and want to go a different way or at a slower pace.

I think we are converging to a place of agreement.

You think we need additional revenue streams - we have no argument there. Of course corporate taxes aren’t the “end all be all”. But they are something. You identified them as a “small part of the problem”. Trillions of dollars.

Frankly - I think that is the more indefensible position in all of this.


Where we disagree is, for some reason you think Amazon and other corporations have the leverage on whether or not they pay taxes. They do not.

If it weren’t for the government they would cease to exist. They are all bound by its laws.

The reason they get away with it now is NOT because it is inherently impossible to compel them to pay taxes - it is because they have literarily bought the government with overwhelming levels of corruption.

The state is utterly failing to defend the best interests of the people and by extension the country; because Politicians have been corrupted.

Plain and simple.

If corporations can devise ways to evade taxes, the government can devise legislation to close those loopholes, compel them to obey the law, and hold them accountable. It’s not impossible. They have deliberately chosen not to do it.

I think we should elect an administration who isn’t afraid to represent the people.

 

[25centsandwich]

I think we are converging to a place of agreement.

You think we need additional revenue streams - we have no argument there. Of course corporate taxes aren’t the “end all be all”. But they are something. You identified them as a “small part of the problem”. Trillions of dollars.

Frankly - I think that is the more indefensible position in all of this.


Where we disagree is, for some reason you think Amazon and other corporations have the leverage on whether or not they pay taxes. They do not.

If it weren’t for the government they would cease to exist. They are all bound by its laws.

The reason they get away with it now is NOT because it is inherently impossible to compel them to pay taxes - it is because they have literarily bought the government with overwhelming levels of corruption.

The state is utterly failing to defend the best interests of the people and by extension the country; because Politicians have been corrupted.

Plain and simple.

If corporations can devise ways to evade taxes, the government can devise legislation to close those loopholes, compel them to obey the law, and hold them accountable. It’s not impossible. They have deliberately chosen not to do it.

I think we should elect an administration who isn’t afraid to represent the people.

We agree for the most part...and i want to agree with your premise.

Corporations dont have leverage themselves your right but the fact is we all have to face the realities of the global economy.

It doesnt really do us any good if american companies or corporations arent competitive and leaders of the global economy. Say we tax and regulate the hell out of our corporations...its not gonna stop those companies from importing parts and goods from overseas instead of from companies here. And even if you do place tariffs or border taxes on those parts...doesnt stop an overseas company from undercutting our products with a much cheaper product. Hell alot of these mega conglomerate corporations dont even really produce anything anymore...they play in the global stock market so they essentially get their money either way.

Not saying that corporations should pay a low tax rate or get massive tax breaks. But there is no good reason for our tax rates to double tax rates in other developed countries. Even with our tax rates at what they were at previously we were still at a deficit and adding more to it.

Again i dont think taxing the hell out of eveeything is the solution to everything. And i think it can be counterproductive in some cases. But we can agree to disagree on that.

 

[Peace_79]

We agree for the most part...and i want to agree with your premise.

Corporations dont have leverage themselves your right but the fact is we all have to face the realities of the global economy.

It doesnt really do us any good if american companies or corporations arent competitive and leaders of the global economy. Say we tax and regulate the hell out of our corporations...its not gonna stop those companies from importing parts and goods from overseas instead of from companies here. And even if you do place tariffs or border taxes on those parts...doesnt stop an overseas company from undercutting our products with a much cheaper product. Hell alot of these mega conglomerate corporations dont even really produce anything anymore...they play in the global stock market so they essentially get their money either way.

Not saying that corporations should pay a low tax rate or get massive tax breaks. But there is no good reason for our tax rates to double tax rates in other developed countries. Even with our tax rates at what they were at previously we were still at a deficit and adding more to it.

Again i dont think taxing the hell out of everything is the solution to everything. And i think it can be counterproductive in some cases. But we can agree to disagree on that.

I respect this opinion. And I think a measured approach concerning the tax code has merit. It is certainly a multi-faceted, systemic issue and we should fully consider all potential consequences - both intended and unintended.

In principle, however, where we can agree to disagree is regarding the nature of intrinsic corporate behavior in a pure neoclassical sense.

The free market encourages me to invest in my employees, invest in my products, improve my processes, apply Financial leverage wisely, appropriately distribute my capital, and engage in various other fiscally responsible behaviors.

The underlying premise being that by making my products and services more desirable, improving my financial position, and making my business model more sustainable - I, therefore, allow market forces to naturally grow my business.

Furthermore - cutting wages, outsourcing jobs, and firing people are supposedly last resort options. Why? Because market competition and economic forces will degrade my brand and revenue in the medium to long term.

The reason this paradigm doesn’t currently exist, is because classical theory ignores present day realities such as the emmensly lopsided power dynamic between historically wealthy corporations and potential employees without Union representation; as well as the pervasive ecosystem of monopolies and monopsonies that plague our economy.

But the government, through the people, provide corporations (and by extension their Billionaire Owners) the very wealth that they so staunchly resist allocating a fraction of to provide more opportunity for those less fortunate.

Bezos didn’t create Amazon by himself. He doesn’t deserve every penny of the profit to himself

Take the employees out of the equation.

What about the roads they drive on?
What about the k-12 education they received?
What about the infrastructure Amazon leverages?
What about the R&D that built the foundation for their technology, products, and services?
What about the Asset Protection and Limited Liability it enjoys?
What about the fiat currency it receives?
What about the very designation and powers of incorporation that it has been endowed with in the first place?


Who provided that?

The people.

I just don’t understand how Billionaires will fight tooth and nail to hold on to 10 cents on the dollar than could give life changing opportunity to the next person. Or could mean life and death for another.

What happened to actually believing in the free market and working on behalf of the consumer and the employee and the greater society?

Why has it given way to Trillions in stock buybacks and millions of lost jobs and 40 years of suppressed wages?

Why should we tolerate it as normal?
Perhaps the self-centered ethos of America is the root cause of my frustration. At any rate, I don’t see why we should have to bend over backwards to appease Massive corporations.

I’m more concerned about the average citizen.

 

[deadeye]

Oh, all of them can go to hell

I'm not choosing sides

But extra fuck him

Agree with everything you said, but why didn't you have the same energy for Kamala Harris?

 

[DOS_patos]

You get progress by fighting for it.
Not by waiting for it to walk your way.

This goes for the hood and reparations as well.

 

[southsil4lil]

 

[DMorgan]

I didn’t say there wouldn’t be rich and poor. That is a straw man argument, fam.

I said reduce income inequality. Income inequality is at it highest level since the Guilded age. Of course it can be reduced. It is literally just a matter of policy and the political will to enact it.

Why can’t it be done?

You answered your own question. Politicians won't enact it because they don't want it just like the people who buy the politicians don't want it. Politicians aren't going to bite the hands that feed them. That goes for ALL politicians.

Equality isn't going to be given.

 

[Peace_79]

You answered your own question. Politicians won't enact it because they don't want it just like the people who buy the politicians don't want it. Politicians aren't going to bite the hands that feed them. That goes for ALL politicians.

Equality isn't going to be given.

And in turn in turn you provided a solution to your own challenge.

FUCK ALL OF THOSE POLITICIANS.

STOP complaining they don’t represent you.

VOTE them out and VOTE in ones that aren’t corrupt.

 

[DMorgan]

And in turn in turn you provided a solution to your own challenge.

FUCK ALL OF THOSE POLITICIANS.

STOP complaining they don’t represent you.

VOTE them out and VOTE in ones that aren’t corrupt.

I've been saying fuck all politicians since the IC in terms of the internet. I don't complain about politicians cause I see them for who they really are.

I'm of the opinion ALL politicians are corrupt and operate from that stance.

 

[Peace_79]

This goes for the hood and reparations as well.

Correct.

And there is a Resolution looking into Reparations Analysis and disbursement.

But Progressive Policies help the hood more than anything else the government could do.

In fact, you and I both know that reparations are a secondary priority.

Education, economic opportunity, and structural change are generational.

Saving the planet is existential.

Reparations are finite