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Do You Support Employees Having A Union?

B_A said:
Employees who know the ins and outs of unions know exactly how to fuck around on the job and be untouchable and not a damn thing can be done to them and it highly de-motivating to other employees who have to pick up their slack.
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What you are saying does not make sense.

If these employees truly are slacking/terrible you should have a record of written reports/violations that are agreed upon as reportable/violations per your CBA with the union. The union protects employers from firing on a whim, you can't just be late 3x in a week and get fired, you can't get caught on your phone and get fired, you can't get in an argument with your boss and get fired, you can't complain about safety issues and poof magically fired the next day.

And what about motivation you want people to work harder for the same amount of money and the suggestion of better pay, that's a carrot on a stick, you want suckers to do more for less or the same amount of money.
 
Police Unions don't protect bad cops, city/state governments sign bullshit CBAs with police unions that explicitly allow them to do bullshit to keep bad cops employed.

Blame your representatives they could stop it at any negotiation and they choose not to.
 
Dwitty said:
Those things would not exist without Labor Unions, they are the ones who fought for them to exist. Nike, Apple, Amazon, etc. You name it and there's a 95% chance that they are somewhere in their supply chain using child sweatshop labor.



Your profession is literally "company man", you're the first bastion of defense to protect the company from litigation.
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That company man thing isn't what you make it out to be. Part of helping the company is preventing us from being sued for wrongful termination, and not losing money.

Firing someone means you pay to advertise that job opening, have HR and the dept manager spend hours reviewing applications and interviewing people (time that could be spent on other shit), paying for a background check, paying for a drug test, paying OT to the workers covering the shifts until the opening is filled, paying to train their replacement. Studies show it costs at least 6 months of salary to replace an employee (that's the low end estimate).

So as a "company man" why would I support managers firing people for no reason, when it's going to cost the company a lot of time and money to replace them?
 
Dwitty said:
Police Unions don't protect bad cops, city/state governments sign bullshit CBAs with police unions that explicitly allow them to do bullshit to keep bad cops employed.

Blame your representatives they could stop it at any negotiation and they choose not to.
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What? The union is the one that comes to the table demanding very lenient rules allowing bad cops to keep their jobs. But they're not protecting bad cops?
 
Bow to Royalty said:
What? The union is the one that comes to the table demanding very lenient rules allowing bad cops to keep their jobs. But they're not protecting bad cops?
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Legislatures have significantly more power to create laws against cops despite their Union.....cut the bullshit....


www.cnn.com

California police reform laws create decertification system for officer misconduct | CNN

California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday signed into law a series of police reform bills, creating a system to decertify law enforcement officers found to have engaged in serious misconduct, strengthen use of force practices and increase transparency with the aim of building back trust between...
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
TheMadLionsFan said:
Legislatures have significantly more power to create laws against cops despite their Union.....cut the bullshit....


www.cnn.com

California police reform laws create decertification system for officer misconduct | CNN

California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday signed into law a series of police reform bills, creating a system to decertify law enforcement officers found to have engaged in serious misconduct, strengthen use of force practices and increase transparency with the aim of building back trust between...
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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I didn't say the other side of the table isn't at all responsible. But to act like the union doesn't protect bad cops is wild.
 
Dwitty said:
What you are saying does not make sense.

If these employees truly are slacking/terrible you should have a record of written reports/violations that are agreed upon as reportable/violations per your CBA with the union. The union protects employers from firing on a whim, you can't just be late 3x in a week and get fired, you can't get caught on your phone and get fired, you can't get in an argument with your boss and get fired, you can't complain about safety issues and poof magically fired the next day.

And what about motivation you want people to work harder for the same amount of money and the suggestion of better pay, that's a carrot on a stick, you want suckers to do more for less or the same amount of money.
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I'm starting to think you've never managed people. My only gripe with unions is it allows long term dog fuckers to stay until they retire. They've been there 20+ yrs and know how to stay now the radar. Didn't perform we that week? They say they have personal issues at home. Or it was an off week. Be good for a couple weeks then back on the fuck shit. So that's its not a pattern. They know wtf they're doing.
 
Race Jones said:
framing your anti-union stance around crooked cops is dumb as hell
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I didn't. They were just a more transparent example of unions protecting people that are bad at their job because their work history is made public. The news doesn't tell you about the stuff a random welder has gotten away with and kept his job.
 
Y'all are right. Unions can benefit workers that are being taken advantage of by their employer. But y'all are idealizing them. Companies don't just want to fire people all the time. That's expensive as hell as far as business goes, and most people don't like letting someone go. So this idea that without union protection people would get fired all the time for being 5 minutes late from break one time, just isn't right.
 
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Bow to Royalty said:
What? The union is the one that comes to the table demanding very lenient rules allowing bad cops to keep their jobs. But they're not protecting bad cops?
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Their demands are not obligated to be met. That's the entire Bargaining portion of Collective Bargaining Agreement. The police union does not care if cops are good or bad in fact they don't have to. Because unlike other unions they are never held accountable, other unions have language that gives both the union and employer an out as far as calling our a particular employee for conduct that is unbecoming or workmanship that is lacking. They're not worried because as sure as shit stinks, your representative will sign a new CBA with the police.
 
B_A said:
I'm starting to think you've never managed people. My only gripe with unions is it allows long term dog fuckers to stay until they retire. They've been there 20+ yrs and know how to stay now the radar. Didn't perform we that week? They say they have personal issues at home. Or it was an off week. Be good for a couple weeks then back on the fuck shit. So that's its not a pattern. They know wtf they're doing.
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Sooooo you're complaining that their work is exceptional 80% of the time, but that over 52 weeks in a year, maybe 10 or so weeks they either perform slightly below the minimum requirements. Or so poorly that they are well under the minimum (but not worth pursuing or punishing to the point the company would rather hand waive it away)

Seems if you noticed then the company has noticed and has no problem with the associated costs.
 
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Bow to Royalty said:
But y'all are idealizing them. Companies don't just want to fire people all the time. That's expensive as hell as far as business goes, and most people don't like letting someone go.
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"Companies have examined production expenses and profits, and have determined that the number of perceived slackers and useless employees is not costing enough money (or any at all) to do anything about it."

Fixed that for you



They are likely already underpaid which is why even if their production is trash the company will not terminate employment because it isn't saving any more money. Cheaper to pay the occasional slacker $30/hr for an $80/hr job, than to pay an excellent employee $80/hr.
 
Dwitty said:
Sooooo you're complaining that their work is exceptional 80% of the time, but that over 52 weeks in a year, maybe 10 or so weeks they either perform slightly below the minimum requirements. Or so poorly that they are well under the minimum (but not worth pursuing or punishing to the point the company would rather hand waive it away)

Seems if you noticed then the company has noticed and has no problem with the associated costs.
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Dwitty said:
Sooooo you're complaining that their work is exceptional 80% of the time, but that over 52 weeks in a year, maybe 10 or so weeks they either perform slightly below the minimum requirements. Or so poorly that they are well under the minimum (but not worth pursuing or punishing to the point the company would rather hand waive it away)

Seems if you noticed then the company has noticed and has no problem with the associated costs.
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I'm really thinking now you've never mngd employees
 
R.I.P. Jimmy Hoffa

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Bow to Royalty said:
Y'all are right. Unions can benefit workers that are being taken advantage of by their employer. But y'all are idealizing them. Companies don't just want to fire people all the time. That's expensive as hell as far as business goes, and most people don't like letting someone go. So this idea that without union protection people would get fired all the time for being 5 minutes late from break one time, just isn't right.
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Companies also spend millions on employee retention programs beacuse the cost to hire and train is billions

**I find however the biggest problem is retaining employees is incivility in the workplace. Yes it can come from management however in my experience is mostly from other more senior employees who feel some sort of entitlement because the been there so long.
 
B_A said:
Last quarter they wanted me to make them 70g, I made them 90g. And they reward you for that, why wouldn't I ride that horse as hard as possible?
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And this is the crux of it. You get rewarded for increased sales, productivity, etc so it irks you when supposedly bad workers aren't filling the companies, and thus your own pockets. Given this, it's not a reach to suggest some supervisors and managers shuttle their resentments into irrational and unrealistic expectations on the work ethic of some employees.

At UPS, the less we got paid the more the manager got paid.

I'm not saying your misgivings about union protected slackers is unsubstantiated, but your position as manager is a red flag.
 
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