OPINION Top 10 NBA Players

[O.G.]

lol Bruh, are you really Ayesha Curry in disguise or what?

So I'm not the only one who has thought this? :)

 

[Mister]

When the personal attacks come in, it's never a good sign for your argument. The man has rebutted your points, do the same to his and keep it moving.

 

[Mister]

Double up.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

When the personal attacks come in, it's never a good sign for your argument. The man has rebutted your points, do the same to his and keep it moving.

He didn't rebut shit. He just goes off on his own tangents. And dick riding is dick riding. Calling that out is fair in a discussion like this.

 

[Mister]

He didn't rebut shit. He just goes off on his own tangents. And dick riding is dick riding. Calling that out is fair in a discussion like this.

He's listed the points you've tried to make and has given rebuttals. You have been the one going on tangents instead of just doing the same. Name calling is the last ditch effort of someone without a solid argument. I thought you were better than that.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

He's listed the points you've tried to make and has given rebuttals. You have been the one going on tangents instead of just doing the same. Name calling is the last ditch effort of someone without a solid argument. I thought you were better than that.

I don't know if you're his tag team partner in these topics or what, but you're clearly not reading very well if you think I've been going on tangents. In every posted I've addressed the points he brought up and repeated my own points. So what tangents could I possibly be going on. Again, he's all fired up and coming at me the way he is because I said that people whose main reason for putting Curry at the top is his team success are overrating him. That shouldn't even be a controversial statement. That should be common sense. He's the one that keeps bringing up all these other players and sets of circumstances to address points that I never made. At some point it stops being an actual discussion and just a fanboy saying everything he can to defend the player he likes. That's dickriding in my opinion. Not to mention that he was throwing out "casual" as a dismissive gesture since his second post. Why weren't you chiming in about name calling then?

 

[Mister]

I don't know if you're his tag team partner in these topics or what, but you're clearly not reading very well if you think I've been going on tangents. In every posted I've addressed the points he brought up and repeated my own points. So what tangents could I possibly be going on. Again, he's all fired up and coming at me the way he is because I said that people whose main reason for putting Curry at the top is his team success are overrating him. That shouldn't even be a controversial statement. That should be common sense.

Now it's a personal attack towards me. Trust and believe comprehension is not a problem for me. But if we're going to keep it clean, your stance has morphed throughout this conversation from the initial post that started this whole back and forth.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Now it's a personal attack towards me. Trust and believe comprehension is not a problem for me. But if we're going to keep it clean, your stance has morphed throughout this conversation from the initial post that started this whole back and forth.

I'm not talking about your comprehension. You may not be vested in the conversation, so you may not be reading the posts thoroughly. And my stance has not morphed. Again, I've repeated my core points in every post. He's the one that's all over the place with his retorts and so I've tried to address points that he's made even if they didn't directly relate to my stance. For example, when he brings up Kareem not getting a FMVP the year Magic won. I pointed out that Kareem had won FMVP before, so that doesn't help his argument for Curry. But I also made sure to repeat once more than I never claimed that Curry isn't a top player because he didn't have an FMVP. Go back and look at how much he's put into arguing against that point and recognize that it's never a point I actually made.

 

[Mister]

I'm not talking about your comprehension. You may not be vested in the conversation, so you may not be reading the posts thoroughly. And my stance has not morphed. Again, I've repeated my core points in every post. He's the one that's all over the place with his retorts and so I've tried to address points that he's made even if they didn't directly relate to my stance. For example, when he brings up Kareem not getting a FMVP the year Magic won. I pointed out that Kareem had won FMVP before, so that doesn't help his argument for Curry. But I also made sure to repeat once more than I never claimed that Curry isn't a top player because he didn't have an FMVP. Go back and look at how much he's put into arguing against that point and recognize that it's never a point I actually made.

This is the initial post:

If anything, I think Curry is being overrated. I like him and I believe he basically changed the way they play BBall in the league now, but I still think people attribute too much of his team success to him. Dude is going to his 5th Finals in a row, but hasn't been Finals MVP yet. How good would he really look if we plopped on an average NBA team as opposed to him being on possibly the greatest team of all time.

You said a lot more than what you're trying to say you said now. So your stance has definitely become a lot softer. But it is what it is.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

This is the initial post:



You said a lot more than what you're trying to say you said now. So your stance has definitely become a lot softer. But it is what it is.

But it hasn't. I've continued to say that he's being overrated by people who use his team success to justify how they rank him have I not? When have I backed off that or softened it. Yes, I noted that he didn't have a FMVP and asked how else could you say that about that was considered a best in the league, but I never said that was my reason for claiming he's being overrated. That's not in the quote you posted, and if you look at my following comment in the discussion, I made it clear as I wasn't claiming that, yet he continued to argue that point. We can all agree to disagree, but I think you're reaching when you say my stance has softened. I can post where I repeated the same stance from each of my responses.

 

[Mister]

But it hasn't. I've continued to say that he's being overrated by people who use his team success to justify how they rank him have I not? When have I backed off that or softened it. Yes, I noted that he didn't have a FMVP and asked how else could you say that about that was considered a best in the league, but I never said that was my reason for claiming he's being overrated. That's not in the quote you posted, and if you look at my following comment in the discussion, I made it clear as I wasn't claiming that, yet he continued to argue that point. We can all agree to disagree, but I think you're reaching when you say my stance has softened. I can post where I repeated the same stance from each of my responses.

So you're just going to ignore the part that I intentionally bolded? I can dig it. Like I said, it is what it is.

 

[Peace_79]

lol Bruh, are you really Ayesha Curry in disguise or what? You keep writing these long impassioned posts with all these mental gymnastics that don't even make sense. You better be literally riding Curry's dick to justify figuratively riding it this hard. All I said was that the people who try to use the team's success to boost Curry's personal greatness are overrating him a little. That's it. I didn't say he sucked. I didn't say he wasn't pivotal in the team's success. I didn't say it was blasphemy for people to suggest he was one of or even the best in the NBA. I didn't say any of that shit, so you making these long ass arguments refuting those statements that you made up is a waste your time.

Yes, I pointed out that he hasn't won any FMVPs, but that was never my main argument, it was just something showing that he's always had teammates that could step up and arguably be more important to his team's success than him. I did say that his team could still win games and even playoff series without him playing well. That's proven fact. Bringing up MJ is stupid. Yes, there was a point where the Bulls team could win in the playoffs without him, but that point came AFTER MJ had already taken teams to the playoffs singlehandedly. It came after he had basically won playoff series with little help. It came after MJ had already established himself as a dominant player outside of a strong team dynamic, something Curry has not yet done.

Curry missed almost two series in the first championship run and the team still won the championship. You think MJ could have missed two series in that first or second championship run for the Bulls and they would have still been championships. Hell, we know for a fact that if MJ wasn't playing well that his teams couldn't win championships because when he wasn't there or wasn't fully back, THEY DIDN'T FUCKING WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. You can't say that if Durant was up and Curry was down that they wouldn't win the Championship this season. You can't say that if Curry wasn't playing well the last two seasons that they wouldn't have won those championships. For goodness sake, last year in one game, Curry scored 11 pts on fucking 18% shooting and the team still won the game. You think the Raptors will win a game against GS if Kawhi takes a night off like that? FOH Believe what you want at this point. I'm not entertaining these ridiculous arguments you're making against points that I never made or points that really can't even be refuted.

Lol

*Writes paragraph of ad hominem attacks

*Pretends he didn’t make several points he did make to avoid arguments against them

* Completely ignores Jordan’s team wining 56 games and being a game away from the ECF, because “he had already established himself”

- Steph’s team wins 4 games without him, he’s overrated.


* Concedes he has lost the argument and no longer wishes to continue debating.





Cool. You got it fam.

If you can’t even stand behind your own arguments - I think I’m done here.

 

[Peace_79]

So I'm not the only one who has thought this? :)

Ehh.

I’ve argued dumbass points against KD, Bron and others before.

Can’t stand causal ass arguments.

• “Lebron sucks - he’s only 3 and 6 in the Finals”

• “Steph is overrated - he doesn’t have a FMVP”

• “KD sucks - He has to join a 73 win team to be good”

• “Steph is only good because he has a team of All stars”

Shit annoys me. If you don’t watch the games or you don’t have enough respect to make a logical argument - just leave it alone.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Lol

* Completely ignores Jordan’s team wining 56 games and being a game away from the ECF, because “he had already established himself”

Let's just take this as example of my problem with you. You say I completely ignored it, but I didn't I addressed it. MJ's situation is not the same as Curry's because yes MJ had already shown that he could carry a team on his own merits. I agreed that by the time MJ retired for the first time, his team was good enough to be successful without him, but I also pointed out that the same was not true for his first two championships. The Bulls would not have won those first two championships if MJ didn't play well or if he was out for a couple series. The point is that you can look at MJ's career and point to a time where his team lived or died based on his play. You can't really do that with Curry. That doesn't mean that Curry isn't good. It just means that his team's success is not the best evidence when you're trying to prove that he's a top player in the league.

- Steph’s team wins 4 games without him, he’s overrated.

Again, I did not say this. You keep on oversimplifying or misrepresenting things I say and then acting like you're arguing against me. You're not. You're just bullshitting at this point. Again, the point is that the GS success is due to how well the team is constructed and you're limited in how much you can credit any one player. The point I'm making with Curry missing the games is not to say that he sucks because his team won games without him, but to show that he's not an exception to that rule. That's why I said you're dick riding. Because you're not really trying to address the points I'm making. You're only concerned with trying to paint Curry in the best possible light. Again, I don't dislike Curry, and if you think he's number 1 in the league, that's absolutely fine. For the millionth time, all I'm saying, is that if your primary argument for why you believe Curry is the best is that his team is successful, I believe you're overrating him, because I don't believe that's strong support for his personal greatness. I don't know why that's so hard for you to get.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Ehh.

I’ve argued dumbass points against KD, Bron and others before.

Can’t stand causal ass arguments.

• “Lebron sucks - he’s only 3 and 6 in the Finals”

• “Steph is overrated - he doesn’t have a FMVP”

• “KD sucks - He has to join a 73 win team to be good”

• “Steph is only good because he has a team of All stars”

Shit annoys me. If you don’t watch the games or you don’t have enough respect to make a logical argument - just leave it alone.

Bruh, please show me where I said that Steph was overrated because he doesn't have a FMVP. Seriously, don't talk about people not having the respect to make a logical argument if you're not going to have the respect to actually address the arguments people make. It's silly. If you disagree with what I said fine, but stop misrepresenting what I said and then trying to act all indignant about it. That's some silly ass shit.

 

[Peace_79]

The point is that you can look at MJ's career and point to a time where his team lived or died based on his play. You can't really do that with Curry. That doesn't mean that Curry isn't good. It just means that his team's success is not the best evidence when you're trying to prove that he's a top player in the league.

Did you just pluck that out of thin air?




Since 2014-2015 Golden State is 23-22 without Curry in uniform, outscored by 53 points during that span.

That’s a 41 Win Season or a few games from Charlotte Hornets, Sacramento Kings status.

This is with multiple All Stars in the lineup ... and no Curry.








Golden State is now 31 and 1 in their last 32 games when Stephen Curry plays and Kevin Durant sits.

Without, arguably, the best player in the world...



What about all those other All Stars - Like Draymond Green and Klay Thompson?

Ok. Let’s check out the +/- differential when either of these All Stars that you believe are interchangeable play without each other




Notice a difference?

They are +16.9 at full strength (one of the best marks of all time).

Which is +2.6 better than they are with Steph, No All Stars, and role players.


They have proven 30 different ways with all types of statistics how that dude is their system, and the engine of their team.

If you don’t believe that, look at the damn Wins & Losses man.

You keep claiming I am not addressing your argument.

I AM!!!

You haven’t proven it or even attempted to do so. You just keep restating it like that makes it true.





I don’t think Curry is #1. I’ve already stated that.

And I never said his team success was the only argument for him or even the strongest one.

What I am saying is that your argument that he doesn’t drive his team’s success, or that he is just a really good player who is a cog in the system is compete and total bullshit ... objectively


And aside from FMVPs (which you have already said supported your argument so don’t pretend you didn’t) , All Star Selections, and the Warriors winning a few 1st or 2nd round games without him - you have not provided any evidence to back up a pretty radical claim.


And it is a radical claim.


The guy won 2 MVPs and his team won 73 games. They are going to the Finals for a 5th time in a row.

Yet you are claiming:

“[Steph] couldn’t carry a team on his own merits”

Or

“[The Warriors] could win a championship without him”




Yet you have not once given a single logical reason why ...

Put aside the crying and name calling and prove your point, fam.

Or just walk away

 

[Peace_79]

Bruh, please show me where I said that Steph was overrated because he doesn't have a FMVP.

Don’t worry. I gotchu, bruh ...

If anything, I think Curry is being overrated...

Dude is going to his 5th Finals in a row, but hasn't been Finals MVP yet. How good would he really look if we plopped on an average NBA team as opposed to him being on possibly the greatest team of all time.

 

[O.G.]

Ehh.

I’ve argued dumbass points against KD, Bron and others before.

Can’t stand causal ass arguments.

• “Lebron sucks - he’s only 3 and 6 in the Finals”

• “Steph is overrated - he doesn’t have a FMVP”

• “KD sucks - He has to join a 73 win team to be good”

• “Steph is only good because he has a team of All stars”

Shit annoys me. If you don’t watch the games or you don’t have enough respect to make a logical argument - just leave it alone.

I feel ya and those arguments ain't even worth arguing about bcuz they are dumb. It's just funny to me that almost anytime Steph is mentioned, like clockwork you chime in. You have been doing that since the Cheap Seats days. No big deal. Keep doing you.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Did you just pluck that out of thin air?




Since 2014-2015 Golden State is 23-22 without Curry in uniform, outscored by 53 points during that span.

That’s a 41 Win Season or a few games from Charlotte Hornets, Sacramento Kings status.

This is with multiple All Stars in the lineup ... and no Curry.








Golden State is now 31 and 1 in their last 32 games when Stephen Curry plays and Kevin Durant sits.

Without, arguably, the best player in the world...



What about all those other All Stars - Like Draymond Green and Klay Thompson?

Ok. Let’s check out the +/- differential when either of these All Stars that you believe are interchangeable play without each other

View attachment 136196


Notice a difference?

They are +16.9 at full strength (one of the best marks of all time).

Which is +2.6 better than they are with Steph, No All Stars, and role players.


They have proven 30 different ways with all types of statistics how that dude is their system, and the engine of their team.

If you don’t believe that, look at the damn Wins & Losses man.

You keep claiming I am not addressing your argument.

I AM!!!

You haven’t proven it or even attempted to do so. You just keep restating it like that makes it true.





I don’t think Curry is #1. I’ve already stated that.

And I never said his team success was the only argument for him or even the strongest one.

What I am saying is that your argument that he doesn’t drive his team’s success, or that he is just a really good player who is a cog in the system is compete and total bullshit ... objectively


And aside from FMVPs (which you have already said supported your argument so don’t pretend you didn’t) , All Star Selections, and the Warriors winning a few 1st or 2nd round games without him - you have not provided any evidence to back up a pretty radical claim.


And it is a radical claim.


The guy won 2 MVPs and his team won 73 games. They are going to the Finals for a 5th time in a row.

Yet you are claiming:

“[Steph] couldn’t carry a team on his own merits”

Or

“[The Warriors] could win a championship without him”




Yet you have not once given a single logical reason why ...

Put aside the crying and name calling and prove your point, fam.

Or just walk away

View attachment 136199

This is what I'm talking about. You keep writing these novels addressing shit that doesn't matter and telling me I haven't proven my point when I already have.

You did a great job of proving that GS is not as good when Curry is not on the floor. Great. No one said otherwise. His team is obviously better when he's playing and playing well. The point that I actually made is that Curry not playing well or not playing at all is not a death knell for his team. I've already proven that by giving you an example of him missing the majority of not one but two whole playoff series and his team still dominating without him. Again, that doesn't mean the team doesn't need him, so don't make another superpost arguing that fact. It just means that he benefits from having a team that's good enough to pick up the slack when he's gone. Can you say the same about Kawhi? Would Toronto be in the Finals right now if he missed the majority of the first to series? You know they wouldn't. That doesn't mean Kawhi is better than Curry, but it does mean that you have to do better when comparing the two players than just noting the success of the Warriors. Again, I'm not seeing why that's such a controversial stance to you.

Don’t worry. I gotchu, bruh ...





View attachment 136207

Wow, you're just getting pathetic now. Here's what I actually said

If anything, I think Curry is being overrated. I like him and I believe he basically changed the way they play BBall in the league now, but I still think people attribute too much of his team success to him. Dude is going to his 5th Finals in a row, but hasn't been Finals MVP yet. How good would he really look if we plopped on an average NBA team as opposed to him being on possibly the greatest team of all time.

Again, I said he was overrated because people credit too much of the team success to him. You literally just edited my quote and took out the reason I said he was overrated all so you could continue to argue against a point I never made. What's the point of that? If you don't want to actually debate the points I'm making, then don't debate me. But doing some shit like you just did is crazy? And then when I call you a dick rider for going this far to defend a player, I'm wrong, but who else would pull this kinda crazy shit?

 

[Peace_79]

Did you see the game?

They just beat the defending champs


Kawhi wasn’t the best player on his team tonight - a team that is one of the deepest teams in the league and probably the best defensive team in the league.

But a team you don’t think could get out of the first round if he missed a few games.

Gasol: 20-7
Siakam: 32-8
Van Fleet: 15 off the bench
Danny Green: 11 Pts and multiple timely 3s

Smothering defense from the whole team. A team that went 13-3 without Kawhi this year.


But there isn’t any amount of data or logic that will move you from that point so I’ll just leave it alone.

You literally just edited my quote and took out the reason I said he was overrated

I didn’t change your post. I put ellipses to navigate to where you made the statement in question... which happened to be one sentence later.

This is common practice when quoting someone not just on message boards, but like in literature, period. I feel like you know this but you are playing dumb.


If the FMVP statement didn’t support your original point why did you even type it at all?

Just randomly in the middle of your point?

You mean to tell me because it was the second sentence directly proceeding your point, it has no connection at all to the original statement?

Really, my guy???

You can’t make this up