Ny Times to do a ‘1619 project’ on the history of slavery & conservative Whitey is upset. Update: ABC will be airing 2 episodes of 1619Project doc

[The Lonious Monk]

The enslavement of Natives is the foundation upon which everything else was built.

No it wasn't, not in the way they are talking about with this project. A large reason why Africans were brought in was due to the fact that Native Americans weren't capable of producing the way the colonies wanted them too, largely because of their susceptibility to the diseases that the Euros carried. Most of the native slavery took place in the Caribbean and South America anyway. The colonies that became the U.S. relied more on indentured servitude from Euros and, to a lesser extent, Africans. It's fair to point out that Native American slavery preceded African slavery in the Americas, but there is no way you can argue that this country was built on Native American slavery, and that's the point that the project is making.

 

[Dwayne]

Natives have Asian traits FYI

 

[HarryHippie]

It's the other side of my equation.

I’m going disagree on that

They were “allowed” to live amongst us but native is a stretch

I say allowed cause no one owns land

 

[Dwayne]

I’m going disagree on that

They were “allowed” to live amongst us but native is a stretch

I say allowed cause no one owns land

So you saying blacks was here first

 

[HarryHippie]

So you saying blacks was here first

I’ve updated the post so you can hear from someone accepted as a “native”

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I’m going disagree on that

They were “allowed” to live amongst us but native is a stretch

I say allowed cause no one owns land

What he's saying doesn't really make any sense. He's claiming that a significant amount of African Americans aren't actually African Americans, but Native Americans that are somehow being pass off as African Americans. That makes no sense. He supports that idea by talking about the number of blacks that were brought over here. He's kinda forgetting that after slave trafficking was abolished, they bred slaves like livestock in the Americas. That's how the numbers were able grow.

 

[konceptjones]

No it wasn't, not in the way they are talking about with this project. A large reason why Africans were brought in was due to the fact that Native Americans weren't capable of producing the way the colonies wanted them too, largely because of their susceptibility to the diseases that the Euros carried. Most of the native slavery took place in the Caribbean and South America anyway. The colonies that became the U.S. relied more on indentured servitude from Euros and, to a lesser extent, Africans. It's fair to point out that Native American slavery preceded African slavery in the Americas, but there is no way you can argue that this country was built on Native American slavery, and that's the point that the project is making.

The reason was that they were running out of Natives to enslave. I'll have to pull the articles I linked the last time I said this back on The IC. I'll post it up a bit later.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The reason was that they were running out of Natives to enslave. I'll have to pull the articles I linked the last time I said this back on The IC. I'll post it up a bit later.

lol There were plenty of Natives in what would become the U.S. Again, what you're talking about happened on the islands and it happened because of the Natives' lack of immunity to diseases like smallpox. I already acknowledged that. Nothing you're saying changes the fact that the enslavement of Native Americans was not a significant contributor to the U.S. being what it is today. The genocide of Native Americans and subsequent taking of their land is though, but again, that's not what the project is about. The Natives caught it hard, and you could probably do a good project like this delving into their struggles, but I'm not really sure why you're essentially trying to derail the discussion of this topic to bring up something that has nothing to do with it. Yes, they could have been more clear about 1619 being the start of African chattel slavery in what would become the U.S., but that oversight is kinda beside the true point of the project.

 

[DMorgan]

Just finished the first installment:
Our democracy’s founding ideals were false when they were written. Black Americans have fought to make them true.
By Nikole Hannah-Jones


Very good some view points I don't agree with at all but very good piece of writing. I'll read another tomorrow.

 

[HarryHippie]

What he's saying doesn't really make any sense. He's claiming that a significant amount of African Americans aren't actually African Americans, but Native Americans that are somehow being pass off as African Americans. That makes no sense. He supports that idea by talking about the number of blacks that were brought over here. He's kinda forgetting that after slave trafficking was abolished, they bred slaves like livestock in the Americas. That's how the numbers were able grow.

He’s not forgetting anything

The numbers growing from breeding have nothing to do with his point. Your point literally has nothing to do with his.

You have an opinion, Hes telling you what it is.

I’m not here to tell you who you are though. Believe what you want. History and slavery ain’t as simple as been taught.

 

[konceptjones]

lol There were plenty of Natives in what would become the U.S. Again, what you're talking about happened on the islands and it happened because of the Natives' lack of immunity to diseases like smallpox. I already acknowledged that. Nothing you're saying changes the fact that the enslavement of Native Americans was not a significant contributor to the U.S. being what it is today. The genocide of Native Americans and subsequent taking of their land is though, but again, that's not what the project is about. The Natives caught it hard, and you could probably do a good project like this delving into their struggles, but I'm not really sure why you're essentially trying to derail the discussion of this topic to bring up something that has nothing to do with it. Yes, they could have been more clear about 1619 being the start of African chattel slavery in what would become the U.S., but that oversight is kinda beside the true point of the project.

The oldest European colony in this country, St. Augustine in Florida, was built with Native slave labor. Up to the mid 1700, there were more Natives being used as slaves than Africans in this country alone. For the 50 years leading up to 1720 more Natives were being moved through the port at Charleston, SC than Africans were coming in, and Charleston was one of the biggest ports for bringing in Africans. The reason whitey started relying more on Africans than Natives was largely because they were running out of Natives to enslave. They had raided Florida and Mississippi so badly that the native population was a small fraction of what it once was. They started bringing them in from other parts of the country but eventually lost allies to conduct the raids to capture Natives for slavery. While Native enslavement died out in the original 13 states later in the 1700's, it was thriving from Louisiana to California well into the 1800's where in places like New Mexico we were used as slaves to work the gold and silver mines.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

He’s not forgetting anything

The numbers growing from breeding have nothing to do with his point. Your point literally has nothing to do with his.

You have an opinion, Hes telling you what it is.

I’m not here to tell you who you are though. Believe what you want. History and slavery ain’t as simple as been taught.

Did you even listen to what he said. He literally said that only 8% of the slaves made it to the U.S. so the numbers of African Americans here don't add up. He then suggests the reason is that a lot of people being counted as African American are actually Native Americans. That is what he said. It's not what I'm making up. And yes my point stands because the reason there are so many African Americans in the U.S. despite the fact that such a small percentage of the slaves taken from Africa came here is because of breeding.

This whole Blacks are the Native Americans thing doesn't make sense nowadays anyway. We have genetic testing. We know that African Americans don't have nearly as much Native admixture on average than was once believed.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The oldest European colony in this country, St. Augustine in Florida, was built with Native slave labor. Up to the mid 1700, there were more Natives being used as slaves than Africans in this country alone. For the 50 years leading up to 1720 more Natives were being moved through the port at Charleston, SC than Africans were coming in, and Charleston was one of the biggest ports for bringing in Africans. The reason whitey started relying more on Africans than Natives was largely because they were running out of Natives to enslave. They had raided Florida and Mississippi so badly that the native population was a small fraction of what it once was. They started bringing them in from other parts of the country but eventually lost allies to conduct the raids to capture Natives for slavery. While Native enslavement died out in the original 13 states later in the 1700's, it was thriving from Louisiana to California well into the 1800's where in places like New Mexico we were used as slaves to work the gold and silver mines.

I'm having a hard time taking you serious now. FL wasn't even part of the U.S. until 1845, so pretty much everything you're saying about what happened in that state has nothing to do with the point being made by this project.

And you just reinventing history by acting like whatever disparate Native enslavement existed during that period played a major role in what this country became. Again, crops like cotton, rice, and indigo were the big profit makers. Those were worked exclusively by African slaves. I don't know why you're so dead set on trying to make this some kinda competition. You could have just made your own topic about the shit the Natives went through without trying derail this topic with shit that is frankly beside the point. If you don't understand why what you're saying is beside the point, go read the first article. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with the statement they are making with this project.

 

[konceptjones]

I'm having a hard time taking you serious now. FL wasn't even part of the U.S. until 1845, so pretty much everything you're saying about what happened in that state has nothing to do with the point being made by this project.

And you just reinventing history by acting like whatever disparate Native enslavement existed during that period played a major role in what this country became. Again, crops like cotton, rice, and indigo were the big profit makers. Those were worked exclusively by African slaves. I don't know why you're so dead set on trying to make this some kinda competition. You could have just made your own topic about the shit the Natives went through without trying derail this topic with shit that is frankly beside the point. If you don't understand why what you're saying is beside the point, go read the first article. Nothing you're saying has anything to do with the statement they are making with this project.

I'm not making this a competition, what I'm getting at is that if we're going to talk about slavery in this country, we need to be completely honest about it and tell the whole story and that begins in 1493.

 

[BRIAN B.]

So you saying blacks was here first

yes

I've read Mansa Musa's uncle w/ his fleet of ships set sail to see how far the ocean stretched & it's believed the land they met is what we currently call America

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I'm not making this a competition, what I'm getting at is that if we're going to talk about slavery in this country, we need to be completely honest about it and tell the whole story and that begins in 1493.

Again, the project isn't just about slavery. It's about the black experience in American from when the first slave landed until today.

 

[HarryHippie]

Your last paragraph illustrates how much you’re missing his point but you prefer being right to understanding

I love you. We’ve been miseducated. Apologies for the condescension. I was irritated with you standing on ignorance opposed to just taking in the info and doing the work to understand.

Love

 

[The Lonious Monk]

You still not getting it.

And I’m not going to break it down to you cause you don’t want to get it. Study more and I mean that sincerely

lol Sure guy.

 

[Focal Point]

It's the other side of my equation.

He's from the West if I'm not mistaken

 

[StringerBell]