Melle Mel: African American Rappers Today are the Biggest Culture Vultures, They Sold Out

[BRIAN B.]

Look, granted..........there's always going to be some degree of subjectivity.


But only to a certain extent...........within reason.


Once we start extrapolating and taking things to the extreme, we're moving into the realm of absurdity.


In other words, you've got to know enough about the music to be able to exercise a reasonable level of discernment.


Meaning, you can't label almost everything as hip-hop.........or go to the other extreme and dismiss almost everything as not being hip-hop.

So does it have a kick drum or snare drum?
Or hi-hats? Or a bass drum/bassline?
What frequency?

where's the rulebook?

 

[deadeye]

So does it have a kick drum or snare drum?
Or hi-hats? Or a bass drum/bassline?
What frequency?

where's the rulebook?

You're making it more complicated than it really is.


Like I said earlier, you know it when you hear it.


There's room for subjectivity, but within reason.


Don't know how else to explain it to you.


Think of it in terms of sports.


If you have a general knowledge of football, you're going to be able to tell the difference between a good football team........and a bad football team.


Same with any other sport.


And you'll know it without having to break down every aspect of the sport to form your opinion.

 

[Dwayne]

He's right, but for the wrong reasons.


Basically, he doesn't fully understand what cultural appropriation (or misappropriation) is.


He's confusing it with sampling.


Now, he's spot-on about black rappers selling out he culture.


Most of this bullshit out now isn't true hiphop.

A lot of rapper are vultures.

Most rap about environments they never been in.

 

[deadeye]

A lot of rapper are vultures.

Most rap about environments they never been in.

Yeah, that's exactly what he was talking about at the end.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I see where he's coming from, but I don't really agree with anything he's saying.

First, he's conflating Rap as a musical form with Hip Hop culture. Hip Hop is more than just rap. While it's true that rap as a music form borrows from other music genres, that doesn't meant he culture that was built up around it isn't unique. I think the culture vulture talk is overblown too, but I don't think you can deny that people have used Hip Hop culture as come up in a lot of cases without really caring about the culture at all.

Then at the end, he seems to not understand the concept of subgenres of music. Gangsta rap is a subgenre of rap which again is the music form that is the basis of Hip Hop culture. You can't just act like those styles aren't subgenres aren't Hip Hop because they don't have Hip Hop in their name. You didn't see anyone acting like Grunge or Heavy Metal aren't subgenres of Rock just because they don't have Rock & Roll in the name.

 

[Rickyrich]

Thing is, there were never any major black labels.


They were just independent labels that had their distribution through major labels.


There was Rocafella..........slash Def Jam.............slash Columbia (now Sony)


No Limit.........../Priority.


Ruthless.............../Priority.


And so on and so forth.


Guess it's even worse that we don't even have any notable independent labels like those anymore.

ya thats i was trying to say

 

[BRIAN B.]

You're making it more complicated than it really is.


Like I said earlier, you know it when you hear it.


There's room for subjectivity, but within reason.


Don't know how else to explain it to you.


Think of it in terms of sports.


If you have a general knowledge of football, you're going to be able to tell the difference between a good football team........and a bad football team.


Same with any other sport.


And you'll know it without having to break down every aspect of the sport to form your opinion.

Football has rules to follow


what are the rules for "true hip-hop"???

 

[deadeye]

Football has rules to follow


what are the rules for "true hip-hop"???

Football has rules..............of the game.


Not rules to determine whether or not someone can tell the difference between a good football team and a bad football team.


It's self-explanatory to anyone who has a basic understanding of the sport.

 

[BRIAN B.]

Football has rules..............of the game.


Not rules to determine whether or not someone can tell the difference between a good football team and a bad football team.


It's self-explanatory to anyone who has a basic understanding of the sport.

any given sunday

on any given sunday the team w/ the worst record could beat the team w/ the best record

whether you like the team or not... they still go by the rules to be considered "football"



now, whether you like an artist or not.. what are the rules they must follow to be considered "true hip-hop"??

 

[Soul_Rattler]

Three things are clear from watching that clip

1. Melle Mel doesn't understand the meaning of the word "Hip Hop"
2. Melle Mell doesn't understand the difference between Hip Hop and rap music
3. He's sitting in front of a culture vulture calling out other culture vultures

 

[deadeye]

any given sunday

on any given sunday the team w/ the worst record could beat the team w/ the best record

whether you like the team or not... they still go by the rules to be considered "football"



now, whether you like an artist or not.. what are the rules they must follow to be considered "true hip-hop"??

False equivalence.


You're comparing the outcome of one game with the overall quality of the respective teams in that game.


What you just described is nothing more than a broken clock/every dog has it's day scenario.

 

[BRIAN B.]

False equivalence.


You're comparing the outcome of one game with the overall quality of the respective teams in that game.


What you just described is nothing more than a broken clock/every dog has it's day scenario.

but they're still a "football team" by the rules right?

whether you think they're good or bad


so if you think an artist is bad then they're not "true hip-hop" right?

is that the rule?

 

[deadeye]

so if you think an artist is bad then they're not "true hip-hop" right?

is that the rule?

Not necessarily.


An artist can be bad and still exemplify hip-hop.


They would just be a poor representation of it.

 

[BRIAN B.]

Not necessarily.


An artist can be bad and still exemplify hip-hop.


They would just be a poor representation of it.

Gotcha

so ain't no rules to this shit

this song is as much hip-hop as The Message or Rappers Delight or I Ain't No Joke or Fuck Tha Police or Dear Mamma



even tho he ain't "rappin" like on the aforementioned songs

 

[deadeye]

Gotcha

so ain't no rules to this shit

this song is as much hip-hop as The Message or Rappers Delight or I Ain't No Joke or Fuck Tha Police or Dear Mamma



even tho he ain't "rappin" like on the aforementioned songs

It's abstract hiphop.


Not in the same vein as the songs you mentioned, but still a form of hip-hop nonetheless.

 

[Natural Born Sinners]

You're making it more complicated than it really is.


Like I said earlier, you know it when you hear it.


There's room for subjectivity, but within reason.


Don't know how else to explain it to you.


Think of it in terms of sports.


If you have a general knowledge of football, you're going to be able to tell the difference between a good football team........and a bad football team.



Same with any other sport.


And you'll know it without having to break down every aspect of the sport to form your opinion.

You are making alotta sense. I think he is just not clear on what real hip hop is to him. Some stuff is just not hip hop and I dont shit on it...I just dont see it as hip hop in my eyes. But it may be hip hop to someone else and that is cool w me

 

[BRIAN B.]

You are making alotta sense. I think he is just not clear on what real hip hop is to him. Some stuff is just not hip hop and I dont shit on it...I just dont see it as hip hop in my eyes. But it may be hip hop to someone else and that is cool w me

so if you don't see it as hip-hop but someone else does what is it truly?


like I said, yall got your feelings wrapped up in it & if you don't like it it's not "real hip-hop"


so what's the rules?

 

[BRIAN B.]

does real hip-hop only come from one region?

do you have to flow a certain way to be real hip-hop?

is there a certain number of metaphors to be considered real hip-hop?


wtf are the rules?

 

[Natural Born Sinners]

so if you don't see it as hip-hop but someone else does what is it truly?


like I said, yall got your feelings wrapped up in it & if you don't like it it's not "real hip-hop"


so what's the rules?

Not so much feelings...but what I determine to be hip hop to MEEEE. Also, some of this stuff that I dont consider hip hop, I have actually liked at times.