Live as a coward or die as a hero. Who's really selfish?

[LUCIEN]

There are times when you should and should not try to be a hero. A coworker told me about a story of an American man whose neighbour got broken into. The police came and started shooting it out with the criminal next door. The man also gets in the shoot out, unloading rounds, and gets shot and dies. People later called him a hero but my coworker thinks he's a moron cause he stepped in when there are professionals meant to do that shit.

A fire is the firefighters job. There's a chance I could try to save them and drop them in the fire only to find out later that the firemen could have saved them without issue if I had waited 5 minutes. Am I still a hero for that shit?

If I'm out on the street and there's no one there to help it's one thing, but if I'm trying to be the police or a doctor when I'm not in a good position to do it and there are actual professionals who can do it then I'm just an ego-driven fool

 

[DOS_patos]

@DOS_patos

I respect you. You come across as someone who cares about the conditions of Black people and people of color. But to say "why would I save a stranger" is contradictory to all of that.

well you gotta look at it like...

would you want me to try to save a person or as many as possible?

my love and will to want to help black people is strong. but its also calculated and planned out.

a person in a fire....i cant say so much.

this answer to this is not as black and white as we make it.
if i am supporting many people who depend on me. me sacrificing myself could hurt more people than i could have helped if i was alive.

so contradictory? no.
situational, yes.

 

[DOS_patos]

It's not about wanting to lead it's about answering the call when it's time to.

I don't think most leaders and heroes want to be heroes, there just comes a point in one's life that it comes down to "if not me then who/ if not us then who"

So yes if that person ignores or doesn't answer that call that person is a coward.

there is alot of people who dont want to lead even tho they are natural leader.
they are in our community and refuse to speak up because of the hard way our people would look at them and make their life hard.
coward? maybe.....but wouldnt their circumstances come into play here?

 

[DOS_patos]

Do you think it's more beneficial for your family and loved ones for you to be a living example of a coward or a dead example of a hero?

what if a person died saving someone who wont help the family of the person who saved them?
they look at it like thank you but i dont owe you nothing. i didnt ask to be saved.

and what if after the persons death, the families life gets hard and the child acts out because daddy aint there. how would being a hero help the mother and child?

these are things people dont take into consideration when placing labels.

 

[Duwop]

My capacity to be a hero or coward depends heavily on convenience and difficulty level....

 

[Duwop]

If I was a fireman tho,.... I'd be the greatest hero to ever live

 

[DOS_patos]

i can understand someone trying to save someone out of instinct and reaction....but do we know who we are saving tho?

would i jump in water to try to save a drowning child? most likely. but i also know how to swim.
would i try to save an elderly lady about to get hit by a speeding train.....depends on how fast i can process how to save her.

my wife and i often talked about what if our plane went down and we in the emergency row.
we both said....i would open the door...wife first then me......after that i will help others.

i bet no one can name anyone who saved people in the denver theater shooting.
and i bet the chick the was saved by her boyfriend got a dick in her right now.
but his mother lost a son and his girlfriend moved on to someone elses son.

hero is not something thats owed. it would be nice but its not promised.
me , myself...i dont expect anyone to save me..because humans are trash.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

i can understand someone trying to save someone out of instinct and reaction....but do we know who we are saving tho?

would i jump in water to try to save a drowning child? most likely. but i also know how to swim.
would i try to save an elderly lady about to get hit by a speeding train.....depends on how fast i can process how to save her.

my wife and i often talked about what if our plane went down and we in the emergency row.
we both said....i would open the door...wife first then me......after that i will help others.

i bet no one can name anyone who saved people in the denver theater shooting.
and i bet the chick the was saved by her boyfriend got a dick in her right now.
but his mother lost a son and his girlfriend moved on to someone elses son.

hero is not something thats owed. it would be nice but its not promised.
me , myself...i dont expect anyone to save me..because humans are trash.

Bro my little sister's life was saved by someone who's a stranger to me.

My little sister got shot up and while this was happening a lady I've never met before laid on top of my sister and used her body as a shield and took the remaining bullets. This lady died as a result and my little sister lived. She literally sacrificed her life for someone who isn't even related to her.

That's probably the most heroic thing I ever heard. That's heart!

Was this instinct? Most likely, but those instincts are usually the result of being a courageous person in throughout their life and in that moment of fight or flight they chose to fight.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

what if a person died saving someone who wont help the family of the person who saved them?
they look at it like thank you but i dont owe you nothing. i didnt ask to be saved.

and what if after the persons death, the families life gets hard and the child acts out because daddy aint there. how would being a hero help the mother and child?

these are things people dont take into consideration when placing labels.

These are a whole lot of what ifs and that's fear. Also I think the what ifs are taken into consideration but the difference is the "heroes" don't allow the what ifs to get the last word or to make decisions in their lives.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

there is alot of people who dont want to lead even tho they are natural leader.
they are in our community and refuse to speak up because of the hard way our people would look at them and make their life hard.
coward? maybe.....but wouldnt their circumstances come into play here?

Then maybe they're not ready to be leaders yet.

Yes circumstances come into play and in those circumstances they chose to not step up for fear of ridicule. If ridicule or fear of ridicule is going to stop someone from taking action, that person is not ready to lead.

 

[DOS_patos]

Bro my little sister's life was saved by someone who's a stranger to me.

My little sister got shot up and while this was happening a lady I've never met before laid on top of my sister and used her body as a shield and took the remaining bullets. This lady died as a result and my little sister lived. She literally sacrificed her life for someone who isn't even related to her.

That's probably the most heroic thing I ever heard. That's heart!

Was this instinct? Most likely, but those instincts are usually the result of being a courageous person in throughout their life and in that moment of fight or flight they chose to fight.

These are a whole lot of what ifs and that's fear. Also I think the what ifs are taken into consideration but the difference is the "heroes" don't allow the what ifs to get the last word or to make decisions in their lives.

and at the end of the day...all heros dont know they are heros until called into action and most "cowards" wont know until called to action.

i just think we should look deeper than seeing a person not react or a person who reacts.

while the lady did what i am sure alot of people would do...but alot of other poeople would run to their own safety...i cant blame them.
while i am sure you are thankful she ricked her life to save your sister and thankfully your sister survived, how often do you reach out to the family to see if they need anything?
if you do thats great, but others would not after a few months.

but the whole point is, to me a coward knows whats ahead and chooses not to engage but run away.
when split decisions have to be made...i honestly cant blame someone for taking a self preservation mode. no matter how angry i am....i cant ask someone to risk their life for me or mine. now if iits some as simple as reaching out your hand and they dont do it.....thats some other shit.

but i think we should not place expectations on people in situations and expect them to handle it like a hero.
who am i to say how someone should handle something when their life is at stake?

because on a smaller simpler level.....i cant even depend on people to help themselves.

 

[DOS_patos]

Then maybe they're not ready to be leaders yet.

Yes circumstances come into play and in those circumstances they chose to not step up for fear of ridicule. If ridicule or fear of ridicule is going to stop someone from taking action, that person is not ready to lead.

so can we call people a coward if they dont step up when ready?
that doesnt mean they wont save someone....they just didnt do it then.

which brings me back to ....the meaning of hero.

someone can not run into a fire but could be devoted to teaching people things that could last generations.
is one hero better than the other? can it be a bigger goal?

 

[DMorgan]

What if someone was as powerful mentally as king or Malcolm but didn't want to lead the people?
Would he be a coward for not stepping up?

Why not just name names starting with Jesse Jackson in the scenario listed in this post. That nigga ain't want to die so he bullshitted the rest of his life on doing real shit leading black people.

 

[DMorgan]

I would like to think I would help kids, old people and mentally and physically disabled people.

Everybody else is situational even family. I don't fuck with some people in my family and when they die I don't plan on going to their funeral and if I die first I don't want them at mine.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

and at the end of the day...all heros dont know they are heros until called into action and most "cowards" wont know until called to action.

i just think we should look deeper than seeing a person not react or a person who reacts.

while the lady did what i am sure alot of people would do...but alot of other poeople would run to their own safety...i cant blame them.
while i am sure you are thankful she ricked her life to save your sister and thankfully your sister survived, how often do you reach out to the family to see if they need anything?
if you do thats great, but others would not after a few months.

but the whole point is, to me a coward knows whats ahead and chooses not to engage but run away.
when split decisions have to be made...i honestly cant blame someone for taking a self preservation mode. no matter how angry i am....i cant ask someone to risk their life for me or mine. now if iits some as simple as reaching out your hand and they dont do it.....thats some other shit.

but i think we should not place expectations on people in situations and expect them to handle it like a hero.
who am i to say how someone should handle something when their life is at stake?

because on a smaller simpler level.....i cant even depend on people to help themselves.

In a situation like the one I spoke on earlier I don't expect anyone to sacrifice themselves like that, for a stranger or a loved one for that matter. It doesn't get more selfless than that. And I've never met the family of the family of the lady who protected her. I think she's built a relationship with them in some way but I honestly don't know.

I agree with you that we should look deeper into what makes a hero a hero and a coward a coward. Maybe an answer lies in "fight or flight". Like what makes us more inclined to naturally react or respond in one way or the other?

But I don't agree that people or society for that matter place expectations on anyone to be a hero or to be courageous. In my opinion it's just the opposite. We live in a "see something say something" society as opposed to a "see something do something" society. We aren't encouraged to take action. We tell ourselves that it's someone else's job to step up and take action. Like we aren't encouraged to make changes in our community ourselves through action. We're encouraged to vote for someone to make changes in our community through words/policies.

In my opinion it's our own expectations or our own conscience that calls on us to act.

 

[NeighborhoodNomad]

so can we call people a coward if they dont step up when ready?
that doesnt mean they wont save someone....they just didnt do it then.

which brings me back to ....the meaning of hero.

someone can not run into a fire but could be devoted to teaching people things that could last generations.
is one hero better than the other? can it be a bigger goal?

Imo it's still cowardice.

He/She isn't ready to be a leader because when the opportunity arose to lead he/she chose not to.

And yes being a hero is also teaching and one is not greater than the other but I would hypothesize that the one who runs into a burning building is also someone who is a leader in other areas of their lives too like teaching, coaching, mentorship, etc. Basically being a "hero" is more of a way of life than a momentary moment of courage. But even if it's momentary it's still heroic.

 

[DOS_patos]

Imo it's still cowardice.

He/She isn't ready to be a leader because when the opportunity arose to lead he/she chose not to.

And yes being a hero is also teaching and one is not greater than the other but I would hypothesize that the one who runs into a burning building is also someone who is a leader in other areas of their lives too like teaching, coaching, mentorship, etc. Basically being a "hero" is more of a way of life than a momentary moment of courage. But even if it's momentary it's still heroic.

and this is what i was getting to.
this is often overlooked as something you should do just like walking by a burning building as seeing someone...you should try to help.
but only one of the people is a coward to many, the other one...ah well.

i know a few adrenaline junkie that is always looking to prove something. i would not call them a hero for wanting to do crazy shit.
but i also know a chick who was in a fire when young and a fire of a certain size paralyzes her. her seeing a fire, you would see her freeze...but can she be called a coward for not helping when in her mind she frozen?


during the war......jews knew they were about to die...so they didnt want a slow death so they ran towards the people with guns and got killed. would they be cowards for run towards the guns to die fatser? or would they be cowards for not trying to escape another way?

now, were they heros because they distracted the guards to allow others to escape.
or was that the plan or was it just an opportunity.

this discussion went quite a few places.
then we can alway look at it like a person maybe save someone from a fire but not want to fight the local bully. or helping thousands but also avoiding the local bully.

or as a cop...you place you life on the line many time over. but what if that one day he is overpowered with firepower and chooses to retreat? does that make him a coward if you dont know his history or sacrifice?

or what if a person avoids taking the leadership position but save someone from drowning on vacation?

is a hero constantly a hero? is a coward constantly a coward? who are we to judge?

or someone can be making amends for some other shit they did in the past.

are we all not a coward and a hero in life?