Let's Discuss How Bob Dylan Is Considered A Great Lyricist

[Lab Baby]

"You don't need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind blows" is a cool line. But my point is that good rappers have lines like that all throughout the entire song. I mean a good rap song has lines like that every line for 16 bars, then a chorus, then a line like that for another 16 bars. then a chorus, then another line like that for 16 bars, etc.

If you go on Youtube right now you can catch freestyles from Black Thought, Papoose and even the old Dipset freestyles that have lines like that nonstop with no chorus.

I'd like to see Bob Dylan's top 20 lyrics/lines/punchlines and compare them to a b-list rapper. I'd bet that a b-list rapper would blow Bob Dylan's lyrics away.

That song was written in the mid 60s. Ppl weren't writing lyrics like that then. Even in comparison to A list rappers, most rappers are rapping for a punchline to land. If you break down the average rap bar... yeah the literary functions are more advanced, but the subject matter is at base level. You gotta bring up cats like Rakim, 3000, Canibus and them to contend with Dylan... and that's because they shine lyrically beyond battle rap bars and punchlines. Either way, Dylan is in good standing as far as lyricists go. I'd go as far as saying Pac is a better lyricist than Bob Dylan, and that has nothing to do with how well he can craft a punchline.

 

[FlowrenSick]

you gotta stop. 1965 to 2022 ???? . taking out all of the properties of influence to meet your skewed view. get your shit together and do some research. there is a thing called impact. when something first appears in a society it can have an impact. you thinking you can write circles around Bob Dylan of 1965??? keep dreaming in denial. art evolves as all things do. youre missing the entire boat on why Dylan is revered by discounting the evolution of art form.

 

[Blue_London]

October for us

 

[5 Grand]

you gotta stop. 1965 to 2022 ???? . taking out all of the properties of influence to meet your skewed view. get your shit together and do some research. there is a thing called impact. when something first appears in a society it can have an impact. you thinking you can write circles around Bob Dylan of 1965??? keep dreaming in denial. art evolves as all things do. youre missing the entire boat on why Dylan is revered by discounting the evolution of art form.

Well The Last Poets have a handful of albums from 1970-1975 that would blow Bob Dylan away, especially Hustler's Convention. That album alone makes this conversation silly.

I mean, are you gonna compare the lyrics to Bob Dylan's best album to Hustler's Convention? Really?

Bob Dylan sounds like a toddler saying, "goo goo ga ga" compared to Hustler's Convention and I'd love to hear the opposing argument.

And Hustler's Convention was released in 1973.

 

[5 Grand]

That song was written in the mid 60s. Ppl weren't writing lyrics like that then. Even in comparison to A list rappers, most rappers are rapping for a punchline to land. If you break down the average rap bar... yeah the literary functions are more advanced, but the subject matter is at base level. You gotta bring up cats like Rakim, 3000, Canibus and them to contend with Dylan... and that's because they shine lyrically beyond battle rap bars and punchlines. Either way, Dylan is in good standing as far as lyricists go. I'd go as far as saying Pac is a better lyricist than Bob Dylan, and that has nothing to do with how well he can craft a punchline.

@ the underlined.

That's kinda my point. People go on and on and on about how great of a songwriter Bob Dylan is. But I could probably name 100 rappers that are just as prolific as Bob Dylan...probably more like 1,000.

I mean, his lyrics are ordinary to me.

It's like Bob Dylan is the absolute greatest rock lyricist of all time, but I can name 100 rappers that are better, easily.

I seriously think it's a conspiracy that old White men are trying to convince us something that clearly isn't true.

And I'm not joking or being a wise ass either. I honestly believe with all of my heart and soul that there is a conspiracy of old White men that own magazines and radio stations that have a plot to convince us that Bob Dylan is a great songwriter. His name comes up waaaaaaay more often than it should when the topic of lyrics comes up.

Let's face it, during the 60s when White people were in the process of stealing music from Black people, they needed somebody to prop up in the forefront to pretend that he was their saviour, kinda like Eminem in the 2000s. That's the only explanation I can think of. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense for White people to praise him the way they do. I've never heard a Black person say Bob Dylan is a great lyricist. So it must be a conspiracy.

 

[FlowrenSick]

Well The Last Poets have a handful of albums from 1970-1975 that would blow Bob Dylan away, especially Hustler's Convention. That album alone makes this conversation silly.

I mean, are you gonna compare the lyrics to Bob Dylan's best album to Hustler's Convention? Really?

Bob Dylan sounds like a toddler saying, "goo goo ga ga" compared to Hustler's Convention and I'd love to hear the opposing argument.

And Hustler's Convention was released in 1973.

5 years later. yep bob is white in 1965 and we know how that goes and went back then. still doesn't discount that art. there's no argument here. there was a rap movement late 40-50's. beatnik shit. white appropriation for a black thing. still, Dylan came out of that with a creative output and the one thing missing here is Dylan used chordal instruments to accompany his form. regardless he had an impact with his point of view and the way he said it. for me, last poets were ok in that it was bongos and congas and sometimes just open word. that wasn't going to stick with society back then. "niggas are scared of revolution" ? not the same as "All along the watch tower." while the later had some catchy wordplay while "revolution" was a straightforward push into black empowerment.
Dylan ain't taking nothing from nobody so it's kinda dopey to be going at him like he wasn't shit. it's a futile stance. as a kid Last Poets came across like novelty. i remember playing tha first last poets album thinking who cool that the word nigga was on an album. there was a fascination with the first time you heard curse words in unsuspecting places. but comparing Last Poets to Bob Dylan is ridiculous. the Last Poets shouldn't be smeared by the premise of this bullshit thread.

shit give Smokey Robinson some shine. he was just as great a poet as Dylan.

 

[RozayTabernacle]

It's not for everyone. Especially since music has changed so much but I don't think it's fair to say he's overrated.

The bold is the biggest point. 5Gs is comparing an artist that peaked in the mid 60's with today or even music from the mid 90's. You compare anything from those time periods and it'll be pretty damn hard either because technology has progressed so much or tastes have changed and developed so much.

 

[RozayTabernacle]

@ the underlined.

That's kinda my point. People go on and on and on about how great of a songwriter Bob Dylan is. But I could probably name 100 rappers that are just as prolific as Bob Dylan...probably more like 1,000.

I mean, his lyrics are ordinary to me.

It's like Bob Dylan is the absolute greatest rock lyricist of all time, but I can name 100 rappers that are better, easily.

I seriously think it's a conspiracy that old White men are trying to convince us something that clearly isn't true.

And I'm not joking or being a wise ass either. I honestly believe with all of my heart and soul that there is a conspiracy of old White men that own magazines and radio stations that have a plot to convince us that Bob Dylan is a great songwriter. His name comes up waaaaaaay more often than it should when the topic of lyrics comes up.

Let's face it, during the 60s when White people were in the process of stealing music from Black people, they needed somebody to prop up in the forefront to pretend that he was their saviour, kinda like Eminem in the 2000s. That's the only explanation I can think of. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense for White people to praise him the way they do. I've never heard a Black person say Bob Dylan is a great lyricist. So it must be a conspiracy.

You can't compare lyrics from the late 80's early 90's to lyrics from the mid 60's because those later lyrics built off of the groundwork set in the 60's. Look at music in the 50's before Bob Dylan, a lot of "be my lady, come see me baby, i love you, please say you do". Dylan brought something different, which more importantly inspired other artists to change direction and be more creative, which inspired more creativity and on and on.

 

[5 Grand]

5 years later. yep bob is white in 1965 and we know how that goes and went back then. still doesn't discount that art. there's no argument here. there was a rap movement late 40-50's. beatnik shit. white appropriation for a black thing. still, Dylan came out of that with a creative output and the one thing missing here is Dylan used chordal instruments to accompany his form. regardless he had an impact with his point of view and the way he said it. for me, last poets were ok in that it was bongos and congas and sometimes just open word. that wasn't going to stick with society back then. "niggas are scared of revolution" ? not the same as "All along the watch tower." while the later had some catchy wordplay while "revolution" was a straightforward push into black empowerment.
Dylan ain't taking nothing from nobody so it's kinda dopey to be going at him like he wasn't shit. it's a futile stance. as a kid Last Poets came across like novelty. i remember playing tha first last poets album thinking who cool that the word nigga was on an album. there was a fascination with the first time you heard curse words in unsuspecting places. but comparing Last Poets to Bob Dylan is ridiculous. the Last Poets shouldn't be smeared by the premise of this bullshit thread.

shit give Smokey Robinson some shine. he was just as great a poet as Dylan.

The bold is the biggest point. 5Gs is comparing an artist that peaked in the mid 60's with today or even music from the mid 90's. You compare anything from those time periods and it'll be pretty damn hard either because technology has progressed so much or tastes have changed and developed so much.

You can't compare lyrics from the late 80's early 90's to lyrics from the mid 60's because those later lyrics built off of the groundwork set in the 60's. Look at music in the 50's before Bob Dylan, a lot of "be my lady, come see me baby, i love you, please say you do". Dylan brought something different, which more importantly inspired other artists to change direction and be more creative, which inspired more creativity and on and on.

Ok What's Going On came out in 1971. That album blows away anything Bob Dylan ever dreamed of, musically and lyrically.

How come White music critics say Bob Dylan is so great when What's Going On is clearly better than anything Bob Dylan ever dreamed of?

Seriously, if you asked Bob Dylan himself; Why do White critics praise you so much when What's Going On is clearly better than anything you've ever done? I wonder what he would say?

 

[Tessai]

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Those are the first 3 songs that come up when you type "Bob Dylan" on Youtube.


Does anybody have any idea why Bob Dylan is held in such high regard?


The reason I bring it up is because I write rhymes. I'm a rapper/MC. I use an app called Rhymezone. Basically you type in a word and it gives you all of the words that rhyme with the word you typed. It also gives you an example of somebody that used that word in a song. 9 times out of 10, if you type a word, it gives you an example of how Bob Dylan used that word in a song and the word he used to rhyme.


After seeing so many examples of how Bob Dylan uses words to rhyme, it got me seriously thinking; Why would anybody pretend that Bob Dylan is such a great songwriter? I mean it must be a conspiracy to convince people that Bob Dylan is a great songwriter because I don't hear it, or see it.

His music is awful. I mean it really couldn't be any worse. If you played Bob Dylan's music for me and I didn't know who he was I'd think you are joking.

Why is he considered such a great songwriter?

 

[RozayTabernacle]

Ok What's Going On came out in 1971. That album blows away anything Bob Dylan ever dreamed of, musically and lyrically.

How come White music critics say Bob Dylan is so great when What's Going On is clearly better than anything Bob Dylan ever dreamed of?

Seriously, if you asked Bob Dylan himself; Why do White critics praise you so much when What's Going On is clearly better than anything you've ever done? I wonder what he would say?

Musically yes, but that's not what your thread is about.

Lyrically, what makes it better? I know it covers a lot of topics that were relevant at the time and some that still are, and it's a classic no doubt, but beyond the song What's Goin On I don't know how many people are quoting lyrics from the album or covering the songs with so much success like they have with Dylan songs.

Honestly Dylan doesn't strike me as the type that cares about getting praised, but I'm not too educated on him

 

[5 Grand]

Musically yes, but that's not what your thread is about.

Lyrically, what makes it better? I know it covers a lot of topics that were relevant at the time and some that still are, and it's a classic no doubt, but beyond the song What's Goin On I don't know how many people are quoting lyrics from the album or covering the songs with so much success like they have with Dylan songs.

Honestly Dylan doesn't strike me as the type that cares about getting praised, but I'm not too educated on him

The entire What's Goin On album is a masterpiece. It's arguably the greatest album of all time across all genres. I struggle to think of Hip Hop albums I'd rather listen to.

The song Inner City Blues was a single and the lyrics are pretty deep.

But the whole album is a masterpiece.

The lyrics, the music, the tone, everything about that album is better than anything I've ever heard from Bob Dylan. In fact everything about that album is better than anything I've heard from anybody, but people always quote Bob Dylan and you rarely hear people talk about Marvin Gaye. I mean, if you go to Rhymezone and type in a word, it will give you an example of how Bob Dylan used that word in a lyric, but it never gives you an example of how Marvin Gaye used that word in a lyric.