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Keith Murphy (no not Keith Murray) goes behind the scenes about ghostwriting for female MC's

5 Grand said:
Well, if you're not naturally gifted at rapping, maybe you shouldn't rap. And yes, there are awful rappers out there that suck at rapping, but they have social skills and connections, or the right look.

I remember hearing that Eazy E couldn't rap. He/they had to record Boyz In The Hood one line at a time because Easy couldn't recite the verse in one take.
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And...that's why u have

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Writers, Performers, and producers

To my original point of, people discount cardi cause she dont write. But her level of performance is a skill in it's own right that alot of the best writers dont have.
 
This all made me think of how mad I was at rap for what they did with chief keef.

Dont like was a smash, chief keef has natural creative talent but he was extremely raw skill wise

And instead of letting him hone that skill into to something polished. They pushed him out to capitalize on his buzz and called his trash skillz a style. Which to this day people till push that narrative out there. So homie never even evolved to be skilled.

He just pushes out project after project because hes creative..

On finally rich you could hear points in songs where you could see his potential



His verse in this was only a sparkle of what he coulda been skill wise

First time I head that shit I didn't even know it was him
 
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also, this nigga lost all credibility with me with this shit right here:

"6)And so ghostwriting was a foundational part of hip-hop throughout the '80s. Everyone knows Big Hank's iconic verse on Rapper's Delight was ghostwritten by Grandmaster Caz. They didn't even try to hide it. IT'S IN THE LINERS NOTES. "

No dumb nigga, it wasn't ghostwritten, it was outright stolen. If he knew anything about the history of Rappers Delight he would have known that much.
 
Alle'Oop said:
Em laid out how to write to a beat in 8 mile...

Feel like....real life....tough mike..or something like that. Once you got the body of what you want and the rythm of how u expect it to sound. Its just fill in the blanks. The level of creativity in what you write is based on talent.

Performance will always be harder than creation. Creation is a natural talent, performance is skill.

As nice as the kid that ghost wrote for drake wrote them songs he wrote, as nice as Safaree helped nicki get in a pocket. As performers they both sucked..because skill is harder than creation

At the same time, some people are naturally inclined to a sense of a skill, such as a sense of rhythm. To those of you that it comes naturally to..I salute you, but it's not as easy as creation to those that are not skilled
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Em laid out how HE does it. That ain't never been how I've done it. I write bars, spit 'em to a beat, if the shit don't fit the beat or sounds like I'm trying to fit too many words into a bar, I re-word it until it sounds right and it flows on point.

As for the performance aspect of it, again that's coached. That's something nearly anyone can be taught and these days you ain't even gotta be good at that 'cause lip syncing exists; just ask Milli Vanilli, Mariah Carey, and Ashley Simpson how that goes. Most of your favorite rappers these days ain't even performing the shit live; shit is all Memorex.
 
konceptjones said:
Em laid out how HE does it. That ain't never been how I've done it. I write bars, spit 'em to a beat, if the shit don't fit the beat or sounds like I'm trying to fit too many words into a bar, I re-word it until it sounds right and it flows on point.

As for the performance aspect of it, again that's coached. That's something nearly anyone can be taught and these days you ain't even gotta be good at that 'cause lip syncing exists; just ask Milli Vanilli, Mariah Carey, and Ashley Simpson how that goes. Most of your favorite rappers these days ain't even performing the shit live; shit is all Memorex.
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Nah I get what your saying fam, I think the slight point of contention is that you say anyone can do it. And anyone can do it, my point is not everyone can be good at it. Just because you can do it doesnt mean your good at it. And if you are good at it, it's because you are skilled at it.

Lip sync isn't the same as spitting rhymes someone else wrote. Lip sync is essentially someone else's both skill and talent and you are just a face. You cant just create a Cardi B.

They are trying with meg the stallion, right infront of our face..u can see the difference
 
Alle'Oop said:
Nah I get what your saying fam, I think the slight point of contention is that you say anyone can do it. And anyone can do it, my point is not everyone can be good at it. Just because you can do it doesnt mean your good at it. And if you are good at it, it's because you are skilled at it.

Lip sync isn't the same as spitting rhymes someone else wrote. Lip sync is essentially someone else's both skill and talent and you are just a face. You cant just create a Cardi B.

They are trying with meg the stallion, right infront of our face..u can see the difference
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They did it with Iggy tho... And to be perfectly honest they did it with Nicki too.
 
konceptjones said:
They did it with Iggy tho... And to be perfectly honest they did it with Nicki too.
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Lol...bruh u ain't gone sit there and tell me Iggy Azealia is anywhere as skilled as Cardi B..

And Nicki is both skilled and talented,..I'm starting to think u got a beef wit female rappers...lol

What's your opinion on Mia Xs ability?
 
This is where it all started



Dope song, but they didn't write the lyrics.

However, you couldn't just pull some girls off the street and make a Salt N Pepa.
 
Alle'Oop said:
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Lol...bruh u ain't gone sit there and tell me Iggy Azealia is anywhere as skilled as Cardi B..

And Nicki is both skilled and talented,..I'm starting to think u got a beef wit female rappers...lol

What's your opinion on Mia Xs ability?
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Mia X was one of the GOAT female rappers of the 90's, right there with Lyte, Bahamadhia, L Boogie, and Rah Digga.

in contrast, her label mate, Mercedes, was utter trash.
 
konceptjones said:
Mia X was one of the GOAT female rappers of the 90's, right there with Lyte, Bahamadhia, L Boogie, and Rah Digga.

in contrast, her label mate, Mercedes, was utter trash.
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We here now..

With her writing and coaching, cardi sounds..."sounds" as skilled as Digga in double time.

Iggy sounds like Mercedes...or a spoof of what she was trying to be
 
Alle'Oop said:
We here now..

With her writing and coaching, cardi sounds..."sounds" as skilled as Digga in double time.

Iggy sounds like Mercedes...or a spoof of what she was trying to be
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The other part of this that you're overlooking as it pertains to how easy it is to train a rapper is that they're already being trained.

The cadence, flow, and rhyme patterns that 99% of new "commercial" rappers use is almost exactly the same, so everybody that's rapping along to their favorite new "hot" rapper is technically in training to BE that next rapper. It's easy as shit to be good at something you're already doing, so all anybody needs to do to train the next Cardi B is to just find a chick that's a huge fan of hers and can say all her rhymes as well as Cardi does, then give her some new material to learn and stick her ass in the studio.

bookmarked at the relevant bars:






You can't tell me you don't hear the similarities.
 
Nah fhey are light years apart

Know you probably heard da me..the emphasis on certain syllables and voice control. Other shorty sound like shes reading words offa note pad cause she think it's that easy
 
Alle'Oop said:
Nah fhey are light years apart
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... you sure you used to spit??? 'cause their flows sound quite similar.

I mentioned it in the thread for that Mulatto broad that I knew what her bars sounded like before she even said 'em. Same for Cardi and most other rappers out now, male or female.
 
Its nuance, you can hear it

Like...



Desiigner holds his breath to much while rapping, poor voice control




Mastered this flow, never sounds out breath, you'd think he punches in after every bar...

It's very very nuanced
 
Alle'Oop said:
Its nuance, you can hear it

Like...



Desiigner holds his breath to much while rapping, poor voice control




Mastered this flow, never sounds out breath, you'd think he punches in after every bar...

It's very very nuanced
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he just might be punching in. But then too they're also rapping at different speeds with Future slower (easier to maintain breath control).
 
konceptjones said:
he just might be punching in. But then too they're also rapping at different speeds with Future slower (easier to maintain breath control).
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:uknowimright:

Skill is how you know what u should do on a beat to make sure it's the best quality it could be.
 
AP21 said:
this is actually a good back and forth with ya'll

im intrigued
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See, I know Allergens usedta spit and is probably close to me in age so as far as I'm concerned he's one of the cats on this board to have this convo with. Everybody that either spits now or used to back inna day approached the craft differently, so when topics like this come up its cool to have a back and forth 'cause you get a glimpse into how they were when they got in the booth.
 
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