Keith Murphy (no not Keith Murray) goes behind the scenes about ghostwriting for female MC's

[AP3.0]

Thread by @murphdogg29: "Ok. So I've seen a few of these type of posts from a few heads concerning ghostwriting when it comes to women emcees. And I want to set the […]"

Thread by @murphdogg29: "Ok. So I've seen a few of these type of posts from a few heads concerning ghostwriting when it comes to women emcees set the record straight historically. Specifically on MC Lyte.... 2) Now let's start off with the foundation […]"

threadreaderapp.com

13) Russell Simmons, head of Def Jam and Rush Management, which had a strangle hold on hip-hop did not want his most popular artists on Self Destruction. So he blocked Run, D, and Jam Master Jay from being on the record.

14) From KRS himself (in an interview I did for VIBE): "LL Cool J showed up, too, but he got a phone call from Def Jam in which somebody told him not to perform on the record or else he was going to be kicked off the label. This was a big threat, but he still came to the studio."

15)The same thing happened with Run and them: "And Run-DMC wanted to be on the record, too! But they couldn't be on it because of Rush. And Jam Master Jay was angry about this. Not just on some homeboy shit."

16) And Jive Records (and Rush management) stopped Will and Jazz from being a part of "Self Destruction". So now we get to the LL/MC Lyte story..

 

[AP3.0]

its like 20 tweets, but it was a good thread. I highly recommend reading it

 

[AP3.0]

I learned that this nigga Russell Simmons blocked Run and LL from getting on the classic Destruction record, and that Will and Jazzy Jeff were also blocked by their label...fuck shit

i wonder what it would take to get one of those records today

 

[Mooney]

I learned that this nigga Russell Simmons blocked Run and LL from getting on the classic Destruction record, and that Will and Jazzy Jeff were also blocked by their label...fuck shit

i wonder what it would take to get one of those records today

Money

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I learned that this nigga Russell Simmons blocked Run and LL from getting on the classic Destruction record, and that Will and Jazzy Jeff were also blocked by their label...fuck shit

i wonder what it would take to get one of those records today

Yeah I read that on his twitter page.

Shit is wild. Especially since at that time PE was one of Def Jams biggest acts.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

its like 20 tweets, but it was a good thread. I highly recommend reading it

Here's a link to all his tweets in article form.

Thread by @murphdogg29: "Ok. So I've seen a few of these type of posts from a few heads concerning ghostwriting when it comes to women emcees. And I want to set the […]"

Thread by @murphdogg29: "Ok. So I've seen a few of these type of posts from a few heads concerning ghostwriting when it comes to women emcees set the record straight historically. Specifically on MC Lyte.... 2) Now let's start off with the foundation […]"

threadreaderapp.com

 

[AP3.0]

Here's a link to all his tweets in article form.

preciate this my brotha...i'ma add it to the OP

 

[Mister]

Yeah I read that on his twitter page.

Shit is wild. Especially since at that time PE was one of Def Jams biggest acts.

That was PE's lane already though.

 

[Mister]

Do you make a distinction between using a ghostwriter and using a cowriter?

 

[AP3.0]

Do you make a distinction between using a ghostwriter and using a cowriter?

i do

but even that has still become muddled b/c it seems like if a dude just says "aye, say this instead of that", he gets a cowriter credit

 

[RusselWilsonJr]

I never got why people care about ghost writing. I think reference tracks are worst, or I should say reference tracks for verses, hooks are ok.

Cause if you ever rapped, like really rapped. You know how hard it is to catch the beat, rock nuances, and spit wit spacing and clarity. That's why I personally dont get peoples beef with Cardi. Say what you want about someone else writing her rhymes. Her ability to spit shits on most of the male emcees out.

That's why I don't like cats like Blue Face and alot of these kids that get kudos even tho they are awful at the basics of the art. Rap is just another form of Rhythm and Blues. Fuck u rap with no Rhythm?

 

[5 Grand]

I never got why people care about ghost writing. I think reference tracks are worst, or I should say reference tracks for verses, hooks are ok.

Cause if you ever rapped, like really rapped. You know how hard it is to catch the beat, rock nuances, and spit wit spacing and clarity. That's why I personally dont get peoples beef with Cardi. Say what you want about someone else writing her rhymes. Her ability to spit shits on most of the male emcees out.

That's why I don't like cats like Blue Face and alot of these kids that get kudos even tho they are awful at the basics of the art. Rap is just another form of Rhythm and Blues. Fuck u rap with no Rhythm?

@ the bolded.

I rap and I just finished a project. All the things you mentioned came naturally to me. I grew up with people that could freestyle off the dome and it could pass for a written verse. If I had a few drinks and smoked a blunt I could, "catch the beat, rock nuances, and spit wit spacing and clarity" OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

My point is that if rapping doesn't come naturally to you, you have to understand that it comes naturally for some people. 2Pac was able to write a song in 15 minutes and go in the studio and lay all the verses down in one take.

The difference between singing and rapping is that with singing, you have to have a good voice and be able to hit notes. A good singer needs a two octave range (Whitney Houston had a four octave range). So if a singer uses a ghostwriter it makes sense because maybe the person who wrote the song can't hit those high notes. So he passes the song over to a producer or A&R who finds a singer that can hit those notes.

A rapper doesn't have to hit any high notes, he just has to read the rhyme off a piece of paper and stay on beat. Like I said, rapping comes naturally to some people, just like singing comes naturally to some people.

 

[RusselWilsonJr]

@ the bolded.

I rap and I just finished a project. All the things you mentioned came naturally to me. I grew up with people that could freestyle off the dome and it could pass for a written verse. If I had a few drinks and smoked a blunt I could, "catch the beat, rock nuances, and spit wit spacing and clarity" OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

My point is that if rapping doesn't come naturally to you, you have to understand that it comes naturally for some people. 2Pac was able to write a song in 15 minutes and go in the studio and lay all the verses down in one take.

The difference between singing and rapping is that with singing, you have to have a good voice and be able to hit notes. A good singer needs a two octave range (Whitney Houston had a four octave range). So if a singer uses a ghostwriter it makes sense because maybe the person who wrote the song can't hit those high notes. So he passes the song over to a producer or A&R who finds a singer that can hit those notes.

A rapper doesn't have to hit any high notes, he just has to read the rhyme off a piece of paper and stay on beat. Like I said, rapping comes naturally to some people, just like singing comes naturally to some people.

You being a natural at it would lead you to not getting the significance of how talented you actually are. It's like people who are social butterflies not understanding how hard it is to be social for most other people.

You just dont grasp how gifted you are cause you dont know how hard it is when you dont have that gift. You tell me it's no big deal, then why are there so many awful rappers? You're telling me that they chose to be awful?

 

[RusselWilsonJr]

It's like, Emmit Smith telling Trent Richardson.


The hole right there..

Or better yet Barry Sanders saying



Just make Reggie White miss you in open space, while paying attention to the approaching safety, then shake him

 

[genocide_cutter]

I never got why people care about ghost writing. I think reference tracks are worst, or I should say reference tracks for verses, hooks are ok.

Cause if you ever rapped, like really rapped. You know how hard it is to catch the beat, rock nuances, and spit wit spacing and clarity. That's why I personally dont get peoples beef with Cardi. Say what you want about someone else writing her rhymes. Her ability to spit shits on most of the male emcees out.

That's why I don't like cats like Blue Face and alot of these kids that get kudos even tho they are awful at the basics of the art. Rap is just another form of Rhythm and Blues. Fuck u rap with no Rhythm?

Catching a beat is not that hard trust me.

 

[RusselWilsonJr]

Catching a beat is not that hard trust me.

The hottest female rapper out



B class fame wise nigga just bullshiting




It's a talent bruh..the problem is it ain't treated as one cause yall who have it, disregard it as one

 

[konceptjones]

I never got why people care about ghost writing. I think reference tracks are worst, or I should say reference tracks for verses, hooks are ok.

Cause if you ever rapped, like really rapped. You know how hard it is to catch the beat, rock nuances, and spit wit spacing and clarity. That's why I personally dont get peoples beef with Cardi. Say what you want about someone else writing her rhymes. Her ability to spit shits on most of the male emcees out.

That's why I don't like cats like Blue Face and alot of these kids that get kudos even tho they are awful at the basics of the art. Rap is just another form of Rhythm and Blues. Fuck u rap with no Rhythm?

I have, and the bolded is some bullshit, you can get coached in the studio on how to do that well enough and if you still suck at it there's always punching-in. The hardest part is writing in a way that will allow you ride a beat. You've only got so many syllables that will fit in a bar and stay on beat. Being able to write within those constraints and still get your point across in a clever manner is much harder than being coached on how to deliver rhymes. Anyone can do that, especially with a reference track (i.e. Eazy E, Antoinette, et al) so all you're doing is mimicing the nigga that wrote it for you. That shit takes no talent. With the right people coaching them and writing for them, you can take damned near anyone off the street and make them sound like a top-tier rapper.

 

[RusselWilsonJr]

I have, and the bolded is some bullshit, you can get coached in the studio on how to do that well enough and if you still suck at it there's always punching-in. The hardest part is writing in a way that will allow you ride a beat. You've only got so many syllables that will fit in a bar and stay on beat. Being able to write within those constraints and still get your point across in a clever manner is much harder than being coached on how to deliver rhymes. Anyone can do that, especially with a reference track (i.e. Eazy E, Antoinette, et al) so all you're doing is mimicing the nigga that wrote it for you. That shit takes no talent. With the right people coaching them and writing for them, you can take damned near anyone off the street and make them sound like a top-tier rapper.

Em laid out how to write to a beat in 8 mile...

Feel like....real life....tough mike..or something like that. Once you got the body of what you want and the rythm of how u expect it to sound. Its just fill in the blanks. The level of creativity in what you write is based on talent.

Performance will always be harder than creation. Creation is a natural talent, performance is skill.

As nice as the kid that ghost wrote for drake wrote them songs he wrote, as nice as Safaree helped nicki get in a pocket. As performers they both sucked..because skill is harder than creation

At the same time, some people are naturally inclined to a sense of a skill, such as a sense of rhythm. To those of you that it comes naturally to..I salute you, but it's not as easy as creation to those that are not skilled

 

[RusselWilsonJr]

And Easy was an awful rapper

 

[5 Grand]

You being a natural at it would lead you to not getting the significance of how talented you actually are. It's like people who are social butterflies not understanding how hard it is to be social for most other people.

You just dont grasp how gifted you are cause you dont know how hard it is when you dont have that gift. You tell me it's no big deal, then why are there so many awful rappers? You're telling me that they chose to be awful?

Well, if you're not naturally gifted at rapping, maybe you shouldn't rap. And yes, there are awful rappers out there that suck at rapping, but they have social skills and connections, or the right look.

I remember hearing that Eazy E couldn't rap. He/they had to record Boyz In The Hood one line at a time because Easy couldn't recite the verse in one take.