Is Public Schooling Detrimental to the Social/Emotional Development of Children?

[JUDAH]

This is a spinoff based on comments made by @HellCzar in another thread.

I feel that the way the public schooling is set up ia a detriment to young childrens social amd emotional development as individuals. Many parents are conscious of their effect on their child's growth before they start school. Kids are sponges and soak up everything they are exposed to in order for them to devolop and learn to speak and to learn the ways of the world.

Children are forced to spend extended amounts of time away from the very people the care the most about then and their well being and instead are left in the care or people who may or may not care as much. And on top of that, they are around numerous other children in the same predicament left to learn the ways of the world together....

This leads me to my point. Judith Rich Harris is an independent resesrcher that specializes in childrens psychology. She wrote a book called "The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out the Way They Do"

In this book she challenges the notion that parents are have the most influence on whu children turn out how they do. And she asserts that their peer group, who mostly consists of their classmates, have a majpr effect on their personailties as well as emotional and mental health.

Here is an excerpt from an interview she did. Ill post a portion and a link to the rest.

Spoiler

In 1998 Judith Rich Harris, an independent researcher and textbook author, published The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out The Way They Do. The book provocatively argued that parents matter much less, at least when it comes to determining the behavior of their children, than is typically assumed. Instead, Harris argued that a child’s peer group is far more important. The Nurture Assumption has recently been reissued in an expanded and revised form. Mind Matters editor Jonah Lehrer chats with Harris about her critics, the evolution of her ideas and why teachers can be more important than parents.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/parents-peers-children/


Thoughts?

 

[AP3.0]

you home school your son?

 

[Duwop]

i think it's essential to their social emotional development....

i feel people in general have to learn how to interact and establish their own individuality in group settings....

start 'em young....

I'm a product of public schooling, and i feel it has greatly influenced my outlook on the world..in many positive ways

 

[Golden]

I agree that the school system is rife with issues but I don't think homeschooling is free of them.

The problem with homeschooling is the power dynamic. If public schooling, private schooling, whatever kinda school, if isn't working out then you can pull ur kid out.

Let's say homeschooling isn't working out for whatever reason. Will the kid have any rights to get an education elsewhere, if their parents want them to be homeschooled? How would they even manage? Can the kid opt out of homeschooling when it's provider is their parents? Nah.

Let's look at a more extreme scenarios, and there's abuse going on at home. Schools are intended to have teachers, principals, guidance counselors and so on who are trained to watch for signs. They fail OFTEN, but the point that is still one of the designated purposes served. That's why CPS and police reach out to school officials when investigating abuse in a home, to find out if there were any changes in the childs behavior or any hints.

When things aren't going right at home, how many outside observers are gonna be able to help when the kid barely gets out? Cutting out a whole lot of people that could've helped look out for the wellbeing of a kid imo.

That's excluding the socialization role in the early years.

 

[Race Jones]

I agree that the school system is rife with issues but I don't think homeschooling is free of them.

The problem with homeschooling is the power dynamic. If public schooling, private schooling, whatever kinda school, if isn't working out then you can pull ur kid out.

Let's say homeschooling isn't working out for whatever reason. Will the kid have any rights to get an education elsewhere, if their parents want them to be homeschooled? How would they even manage? Can the kid opt out of homeschooling when it's provider is their parents? Nah.

Let's look at a more extreme scenarios, and there's abuse going on at home. Schools are intended to have teachers, principals, guidance counselors and so on who are trained to watch for signs. They fail OFTEN, but the point that is still one of the designated purposes served. That's why CPS and police reach out to school officials when investigating abuse in a home, to find out if there were any changes in the childs behavior or any hints.

When things aren't going right at home, how many outside observers are gonna be able to help when the kid barely gets out? Cutting out a whole lot of people that could've helped look out for the wellbeing of a kid imo.

That's excluding the socialization role in the early years.

 

[JUDAH]

you home school your son?

We are seriously considering it

 

[JUDAH]

I agree that the school system is rife with issues but I don't think homeschooling is free of them.

The problem with homeschooling is the power dynamic. If public schooling, private schooling, whatever kinda school, if isn't working out then you can pull ur kid out.

Let's say homeschooling isn't working out for whatever reason. Will the kid have any rights to get an education elsewhere, if their parents want them to be homeschooled? How would they even manage? Can the kid opt out of homeschooling when it's provider is their parents? Nah.

Let's look at a more extreme scenarios, and there's abuse going on at home. Schools are intended to have teachers, principals, guidance counselors and so on who are trained to watch for signs. They fail OFTEN, but the point that is still one of the designated purposes served. That's why CPS and police reach out to school officials when investigating abuse in a home, to find out if there were any changes in the childs behavior or any hints.

When things aren't going right at home, how many outside observers are gonna be able to help when the kid barely gets out? Cutting out a whole lot of people that could've helped look out for the wellbeing of a kid imo.

That's excluding the socialization role in the early years.

You make a lot of valid points. I didn't suggest home schooling purposely because i didnt want that to take away from the discussion of public schools. But you're right. I think a better option would be communal schooling. If tou could find a group of dedicated parents either agreeing on who the instructors would be or actually teaching the classes and being compensated of offset the sacrifice of not being able to work.

Like bullying has become a major issue in schools. Its always been there, but its becoming a focus. Then the fact that there are many teachers just there for a check and they don't habe a vested interest in the success of their students is a problem.

Or maybe its my paternal instincts in overdrive trying to preseve the innocence of my son as much as possible lol. I just see the issues man...

@HellCzar do you care to share some experiences to put this in perspective?

 

[MissK]

I am not sure every parent has the capability to effectively home school.

I also think it is kind of a case by case basis guided by the child. You can get a sense at a fairly early age the personality of a kid. Those that are highly extroverted and need constant stimulation may not do as well in a home school environment. Yes, I am aware that there are activities geared towards those that are but to me it is not the same.

Flip side I do not agree with standardized testing, teaching to that testing, and the influence of funding. I discovered early on that my son was having difficulty in speech so I was able to get him to speech therapy before he entered kinder. Well of course they wanted to label him as 'special needs' which I had a problem with due to the stigma attached plus as it would not impact when he went to school I saw no need for it and it would be on his permanent record. Well the true reason to put him under this was more motivated by what the school could get as far as funding. I do see the need for extra funding but I also think about how labeling kids benefits the school a lot and can lead to misdiagnosis. (think of the upswing in the kids being labeled ADHD)

Excuse the tangent

 

[JUDAH]

Good post @MissK

I have a similar story to share about my son, but i don't want to derail the thread completely lol. Get back to me on that

 

[Duwop]

plus it places things in perspective.. i never sold drugs or played with guns, was out on the corner shooting dice n all that... moms woulda whooped my ass.....

but i went to school with all them niggaz......fought with and against them niggaz, roasted them niggaz in class......hooped with them on the court and played sports with them.....

so i see them as people and not faceless thugs.....niggaz who ain't bout that life really let niggaz on a corner intimidate them.....like growing up people would be shook if there was a whole bunch of niggaz on the corner....even now, if people come around to visit me or my wife...they be like 'is it always mad people on the corners like that?" but when u know them niggaz by first name, and even squared up with them back n the day......it ain't shit to be like...."aye......yall niggaz take that shit down the street....fuck wrong with yall??"


and it's nuffin

 

[IP360]

Public schooling is the closet thing for kids to learn/prepare about the real world.

 

[IP360]

I enjoyed going to a public school.

 

[JUDAH]

I enjoyed going to a public school.

How many people were in your graduating class?

 

[Chi-Town B]

That's how you learn to socialize being in school with others. Some of the best times of my life was in school hanging with my peers, I wouldn't have been able to do that in home school.

 

[Golden]

I can't do home schoolin but I think parental involvement is key. A "good" public school can offer great teaching n extracurriculars.

I've read a few studies that suggested kids who have motivated, invested parents tend to do well no matter which school they go to. All things being equal, home life has the biggest impact.

@Judge_Judah community led schooling sounds amazing. They're starting similar initiatives in quite a few places, ima see if I can get u links. The only issue I can think of is making sure the standards of teaching are there. Qualified teachers r important.

 

[EleanorDeWitt]

I am not sure every parent has the capability to effectively home school.

I also think it is kind of a case by case basis guided by the child. You can get a sense at a fairly early age the personality of a kid. Those that are highly extroverted and need constant stimulation may not do as well in a home school environment. Yes, I am aware that there are activities geared towards those that are but to me it is not the same.

Flip side I do not agree with standardized testing, teaching to that testing, and the influence of funding. I discovered early on that my son was having difficulty in speech so I was able to get him to speech therapy before he entered kinder. Well of course they wanted to label him as 'special needs' which I had a problem with due to the stigma attached plus as it would not impact when he went to school I saw no need for it and it would be on his permanent record. Well the true reason to put him under this was more motivated by what the school could get as far as funding. I do see the need for extra funding but I also think about how labeling kids benefits the school a lot and can lead to misdiagnosis. (think of the upswing in the kids being labeled ADHD)

Excuse the tangent

My youngest needs speech therapy. I work with special ed kids in public schools.

I agree with you on testing. But if you don't want your kid to test, at least in my district, you just have to sign a waiver saying you don't want them to test, and problem solved. About labeling your son special needs, it sounds worse than it is. Because he needs speech therapy, he does require a special need. Speech therapy isn't something general end kids have to worry about, and speech therapy is expensive, hence the extra funding, so if the school wants to provide that for you, why not accept it? They don't have to provide it at all. Would you prefer that?

 

[MissK]

My youngest needs speech therapy. I work with special ed kids in public schools.

I agree with you on testing. But if you don't want your kid to test, at least in my district, you just have to sign a waiver saying you don't want them to test, and problem solved. About labeling your son special needs, it sounds worse than it is. Because he needs speech therapy, he does require a special need. Speech therapy isn't something general end kids have to worry about, and speech therapy is expensive, hence the extra funding, so if the school wants to provide that for you, why not accept it? They don't have to provide it at all. Would you prefer that?

We can't opt out of testing here.

I did accept it and I do understand but I don't feel it should be following him his whole academic career, I acknowledged the need for funding.
Do you really think people realize that speech therapy is defined as a special need because I didn't so there needs to be more clarification to that end.
And there are still too many districts abusing what we define special needs as to increase funding.
He was in speech therapy before kinder and it did not continue.

 

[IP360]

How many people were in your graduating class?

Bout 100+

 

[EleanorDeWitt]

We can't opt out of testing here.

I did accept it and I do understand but I don't feel it should be following him his whole academic career, I acknowledged the need for funding.
Do you really think people realize that speech therapy is defined as a special need because I didn't so there needs to be more clarification to that end.
And there are still too many districts abusing what we define special needs as to increase funding.
He was in speech therapy before kinder and it did not continue.

Idk what people know love, I'm learning myself as I go, but..

Any need that exceeds the need to go to school to get an education is a special need. If your child is hard of hearing, that's a special need. Needs speech therapy, special need. Needs psychiatric therapy, special need. If your child's behavior is excessive, special need. If your child is a threat to himself or others, special need. If the kid is physically disabled, special need. If the kid can't go to school without needing some type of professional intervention then it is a special need.

With your son it sounds like he may not even need the therapy anymore? In which case he'd be mainstreamed asap. All the kids are mainstreamed asap. A lot of kids who start in special ed will be out by the time they graduate, and most will at least spend half the day or more in regular classes once they've shown they can. It being on their record doesn't really matter if their grades are good and they have the extracurriculars (just like any other kid).

But I'm curious about the abuse you speak of? Where I'm from, its difficult for us to get funding and we often feel like they don't even want our kids and we have to fight for them all the time. We have to hustle if we want to take our kids on a field trip or get them chrome books. Those are things reserved for the general ed kids who will "greater benefit." So whatever funding we do get goes where it should, which is straight to anything and everything we can get for those kids. Were spending out our own pockets all the time. Because districts spend so much on speech and hearing and physical therapists etc etc getting our kids the basics is hard. So extra funding would be appreciated if people want those kids to have anything.

 

[MissK]

Idk what people know love, I'm learning myself as I go, but..

Any need that exceeds the need to go to school to get an education is a special need. If your child is hard of hearing, that's a special need. Needs speech therapy, special need. Needs psychiatric therapy, special need. If your child's behavior is excessive, special need. If your child is a threat to himself or others, special need. If the kid is physically disabled, special need. If the kid can't go to school without needing some type of professional intervention then it is a special need.

With your son it sounds like he may not even need the therapy anymore? In which case he'd be mainstreamed asap. All the kids are mainstreamed asap. A lot of kids who start in special ed will be out by the time they graduate, and most will at least spend half the day or more in regular classes once they've shown they can. It being on their record doesn't really matter if their grades are good and they have the extracurriculars (just like any other kid).

But I'm curious about the abuse you speak of? Where I'm from, its difficult for us to get funding and we often feel like they don't even want our kids and we have to fight for them all the time. We have to hustle if we want to take our kids on a field trip or get them chrome books. Those are things reserved for the general ed kids who will "greater benefit." So whatever funding we do get goes where it should, which is straight to anything and everything we can get for those kids. Were spending out our own pockets all the time. Because districts spend so much on speech and hearing and physical therapists etc etc getting our kids the basics is hard. So extra funding would be appreciated if people want those kids to have anything.

This quote is the problem I have with labeling:

Another way labeling can harm students is through the way that they may come to define and artificially limit the way that special needs children come to think of themselves, and the way that others come to think of these students. Disability labels focus on what students cannot do, not on what they can do, and therefore can encourage children to think of themselves as incomplete or inadequate and to contribute to the development of low self-esteem. The use of such labels may also inadvertently push well-meaning family members and teachers to lower their expectations of a child once labeled with a disability. This in turn may affect the child's overall success because when parents and teachers do not challenge children adequately, it makes it harder for them to think well of themselves. Positive self-esteem is something that grows from the experience of meeting and conquering challenges; it cannot easily develop when expectations of a child are low.

And this quote is the issue I am speaking of (in no way is it every case but there is plenty of it):

Then there is the money. Although special ed programs can be costly, they are also highly compensated through weighted funding formulas. In 2005-2006, for example, Atlanta Public Schools generated $7,550 in funds from Georgia’s state government for every special ed child enrolled; that’s three times more than the district receives from the state for every child in a regular classroom or in gifted-and-talented classes.

Medicaid, which compensates school districts for every cost related to providing special ed medical services, is also a prime funding source as states use the program to help shift administrative costs from their books. Last year, school districts in New York State agreed to repay $540 million in Medicaid funds for special Ed costs they improperly billed. Declared Greene and his colleague, Marcus Winters, this past August in Forbes: “Schools see a financial incentive to designate low-achieving students as disabled, while they may not actually be disabled at all.”

I do have friends that are teachers and I know that they are financially stressed in classrooms but yes there are problems with funding too when kids are being mislabeled.