How Come It's OK For Females To Use Ghostwriters?

[5 Grand]

Yeah I know there's exceptions to the rule. I've heard Eve and Lauryn Hill write their own rhymes.

But Lil Kim, Foxy Brown, Nikki Minaj all had ghostwriters and they are some of the most popular female MCs.

I know MC Lyte and Salt N Pepa didn't write their own rhymes.

It seems like its more acceptable for a female to use ghostwriters.

Whenever a male is accused of using ghostwriters he's considered a fake, but when it's a female, it's ok.

It's like, whenever it's a female she has to get the "flow" of the rap, like how Lil Kim was rapping on her first album.

But when it's a man, it's understood that he has to write the rap and then he's supposed to get the "flow" too, like Biggie was rapping on his first album.

 

[5th Letter]

Double standards best way to explain it.

 

[Shenco]

Who said it's okay? I don't think anyone is putting alot of these ladies in a top MC list or anything like that seriously

 

[A-List]

Havent heard anyone saying its ok. If a female get proclaims she's the best spittin and so on and so forth, those better be her bars...

 

[5 Grand]

Havent heard anyone saying its ok. If a female get proclaims she's the best spittin and so on and so forth, those better be her bars...

I've heard people go on and on about how Foxy and Kim were spitting in the mid 90s.

And I never understood the hype because they used ghostwriters.

 

[L3NU]

In my observations most dudes dont really take female rappers seriously so they aren't held to the same standards as male rappers and get a pass for ghostwriting

its wack either way, write your own rhymes

 

[5 Grand]

In my observations most dudes dont really take female rappers seriously so they aren't held to the same standards as male rappers and get a pass for ghostwriting

its wack either way, write your own rhymes

@ the bolded.

That's my point. How come girls get a pass but guys don't?

Is there something in the DNA that says its ok for a girl to use ghostwriters? If not, who made the rules?


Taking it back to Grandmaster Caz and Rappers Delight, even back then there seemed to be a problem with ghostwriting.

 

[grYmes]

Only time this shit becomes a big deal is when female rappers start claiming their status as the best. We tend to see who’s really writing and who’s really not when it comes time for the diss tracks. Female rappers tho are sadly not taken seriously even in 2023.

 

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

Sexism.

Misandry.

Hypocrisy.

Take your pick.

 

[Lab Baby]

This started around the Lil Kim era, where the industry treated female rappers like R&B singers. They wrote their own rhymes, but their respective labels wanted their lyrics to match the image package they planned for them. A good amount of those ghostwritten bars are about sex and whatever appeals to basic male sensibilities. Fox had 3 of the greatest features of all time (I Shot Ya, Ain't No Nigga, Bang Bang) and she wrote those herself. The SnP/Lyte thing is new to me, but for the most part female emcees back then had their own image/style so not too many dudes could be able to write for them. I would assume you would have to be well versed in giving oral pleasure to a man to write a verse for a Lil Kim. RIP Biggie.

 

[A-List]

I've heard people go on and on about how Foxy and Kim were spitting in the mid 90s.

And I never understood the hype because they used ghostwriters.

We knew that Biggie was writing Kim shyt, and Jay-Z and Nas or whoever was writing for Foxy. From what I can recall people that would take notice to this just liked the songs. Why would we say Kim spittin when we heard a few of the reference tracks?

 

[5 Grand]

We knew that Biggie was writing Kim shyt, and Jay-Z and Nas or whoever was writing for Foxy. From what I can recall people that would take notice to this just liked the songs. Why would we say Kim spittin when we heard a few of the reference tracks?

Those Reference tracks didn't come out until the internet, which was after Biggie died.

 

[A-List]

Those Reference tracks didn't come out until the internet, which was after Biggie died.

Na, my guy...Some of those shyts were on mixtapes. Shyt Cam told the world in like 99 that he wrote Crush on You. Foxy Brown either sounded like Jay-Z or Nas on certain tracks. People knew what was going on

 

[KillaCham]

I've never heard anyone say it's "ok" for female rappers to have ghostwriters. Matter fact, we've always jumped to criticize female rappers for not writing their own shit, whether we have proof of it or not.. and it was Kim & Foxy who perpetrated that stigma tenfold. They were muses of other people's pens and ideas. One day after Kim was finished spitting Big's kids into the sink, he decided to make her a rapper and created the Lil Kim character. Hardcore was that nigga's sophomore album. Jay, Shyne, and others wrote Foxy's first two joints and Red Handed did most of Broken Silence. For as "legendary" as they are, we haven't heard them rap anything to write home about in 15+ years cause they had very little to bring to the table themselves in the first place.

Those two were big inspirations for the next generation so it was hard for cats to look at the next crop of influenced femcees and not jump to conclusions. I think it's pretty unfair to hear female lyricists and default to "she probably didn't write that shit tho", but Kim & Foxy are a big reason why that 'distrust' is as strong as it is.

 

[KillaCham]

And Nicki's material is not ghostwritten. Did you mean to say Cardi B?

 

[5th Letter]

And Nicki's material is not ghostwritten. Did you mean to say Cardi B?

Safaree never wrote for her at no point?

 

[Maywood]

 

[KillaCham]

Safaree never wrote for her at no point?

Have you heard what a Safaree song sounds like?

 

[KillaCham]

Safaree definitely had creative input during the early days of goofy shit and yelling on tracks and shit. That's pretty easy to tell. He ran what he said back and admitted he didn't actually write tho.. was a Vlad interview or something.

 

[Water Ur Seeds]

Female rappers that are recognised as dope MCs get their props... Lauryn, Eve, Jean Grae, Che Noir, Rapsody, Chika, Jamee Cornelia and UK MCs like Little Simz and Isatta Sheriff etc righty get held to the same standards as dudes...

Like @5th Letter said its partly double standards with female MCs having ghostwriters but people ignore it, like its OK if she has a dope flow and even better flow AND looks...

Its not just exclusive to females though, Its the same with rapping producers too, like Puff and Dre for example, if they are dropping dope tracks and albums people kind of ignore it... Or dont talk about it too much...