Better Overall: Current NBA Players vs Old School NBA Players?

NBA league average ppg by decade:
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1960s: 115.0
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1970s: 108.3
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1980s: 109.2
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1990s: 101.3
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2000s: 96.9
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2010s: 102.2
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2020s: 112.7
 
O.G. said:
NBA league average ppg by decade:
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1960s: 115.0
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1970s: 108.3
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1980s: 109.2
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1990s: 101.3
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2000s: 96.9
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2010s: 102.2
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2020s: 112.7
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That doesn't iserve as an indicator to what we're discussing tho.

There's a whole bunch of nuance that you're skipping over. Mainly how teams played/play defense being the biggest thing. Bigger guys having to switch on defense because bigs are a threat on perimeter, switches on pnr, pick and pops, moving distance on defense, hedging etc.

There's also a conversation to be had about efficiency. Without looking I can say 80s 90s 00s probably had more guys that were prolific midrange shooters but there were alot of stars getting large amounts of shots up that were wildly inefficient by todays standard and we wouldn't give them that same greenlight. Missed shots + putbacks/fast breaks + more possessions = high scores. Once players became more efficient midrange and three points shooters (on lower attempts) in the early 00s we saw the overall number drop low as teams were relying less on fastbreaks and put backs and it became a possession to possession and iso friendly game.

Then we had the 10s where players started looking for shots at the 3pt line and beyond which increased average scores.
 
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Freeman said:
That doesn't iserve as anbndicator to what we're discussing tho.

There's a whole bunch of nuance that you're skipping over. Mainly how teams played/play defense being the biggest thing. Bigger guys having to switch on defense because bigs are a threat on perimeter, switches on pnr, puck and pops, moving distance on defense, hedging etc.

There's also a conversation to be had about efficiency. Without looking I can say 80s 90s 00s orobably had more guys that were prolific midrange shooters but there were alot of stars getting large amounts of shots up that were wildly inefficient by todays standard and we wouldn't give them that same greenlight. Missed shots + putbacks/fast breaks + more possessions = high scores. Once players became more efficient midrange and three points shooters (on lower attempts) in the early 00s we saw the overall number drop low as teams were relying less on fastbreaks and put backs and it became a possession to possession and iso friendly game.

Then we had the 10s where players started looking for shots at the 3pt line and beyond which increased average scores.
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I was just posting the averages. No motive behind it. Just wanted to see what it looked like on paper.
 
O.G. said:
Players are more skilled today for the simple fact that they train differently than in the past. Bigs had no reason to be shooting corner threes. Guards weren't practicing on step backs and crossovers from all angles bcuz most likely it was gonna be called traveling back then. Pivot foot was a thing back in the day. Can't overlook rule changes when it comes to comparing eras. What about BBIQ? Is it smart to keep spamming threes when you are 2 for 12? How many players today even move without the ball or cut to the basket? Pace of today's game is indeed faster, but the stars are playing fewer minutes than in the past so imo that evens out.

Getting 40 in a clogged lane, relying on your midrange and movement>>>>>>>>>>>> playing keep away at the three point line, calling for screens until you have a shot.

I don't have no dog in this fight bcuz I'm a bball junkie. All eras are flawed. And I'm gonna keep on watching.
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You basically explained why the players aren't more skilled though. Bigs shooting corner threes instead of posting up and scoring =/= more skill. That's just an example of trading one skill for another. Being able to do extra moves because the refs let you do it isn't "more skill." It's less restrictions.

I don't knock anyone for liking this era of BBall more than past eras, but we have to stop lying about it. Yes, fans of older eras have nostalgia bias, but today's fans have some heavy recency bias.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
You basically explained why the players aren't more skilled though. Bigs shooting corner threes instead of posting up and scoring =/= more skill. That's just an example of trading one skill for another. Being able to do extra moves because the refs let you do it isn't "more skill." It's less restrictions.

I don't knock anyone for liking this era of BBall more than past eras, but we have to stop lying about it. Yes, fans of older eras have nostalgia bias, but today's fans have some heavy recency bias.
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They aren't skill swapping, they are are skill stacking. Todays bigs are asked to do all that and more. If back to basket game was valuable in the nba, Jahlil would have found a place in this league.
 
NotRol said:
They aren't skill swapping, they are are skill stacking. Todays bigs are asked to do all that and more. If back to basket game was valuable in the nba, Jahlil would have found a place in this league.
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But they aren't. Most of the bigs in today's league can't post up and definitely couldn't do it if they had to face a skilled big defender. So no they aren't skill stacking. You could be right that back to the basket play doesn't have much of a place in today's league, but that only reinforces the point that they've traded that skill for something else.
 
Most bigs cant post up is exaggerated. They post up less but it doesn't mean theyre unable to. Plenty of modern bigs can score on the block. Ability hasnt changed its efficiency math. Bigs just have to do more on offense and on defense than what was required from them in the past. 90s centers were typically slow, couldnt pass, bad shooters and weak ball handlers. Today its more common that they can be everything those 90s centers werent good at especially the good to elite. But its expected the game has evolved and players have compounded on those abilities of the past.
 
NotRol said:
Most bigs cant post up is exaggerated. They post up less but it doesn't mean theyre unable to. Plenty of modern bigs can score on the block. Ability hasnt changed its efficiency math. Bigs just have to do more on offense and on defense than what was required from them in the past. 90s centers were typically slow, couldnt pass, bad shooters and weak ball handlers. Today its more common that they can be everything those 90s centers werent good at especially the good to elite. But its expected the game has evolved and players have compounded on those abilities of the past.
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I don't believe the bold is true at all, unless you're speaking relative to wing players. Sure, AI was faster and a better ball handler than Shaq, but that doesn't make Shaq slow or a poor ball handler relative to today's centers. I'll give you that today's centers are better shooters, but that's about it. 90s centers were more often the end goal, so it's not that they were bad passers, they just didn't do it as much. It's the same logic you're using to defend the post up game in today's era. And I don't want to hear anything about ball handling. Ya'll can't keep playing this game where ya'll say today's players are better ball handlers while also admitting that everything that they do that you consider to be an example of better ball handling wasn't done before because it wasn't legal. You don't think David Robinson could have run down the lane like Giannis if that was actually allowed back then?
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I don't believe the bold is true at all, unless you're speaking relative to wing players. Sure, AI was faster and a better ball handler than Shaq, but that doesn't make Shaq slow or a poor ball handler relative to today's centers. I'll give you that today's centers are better shooters, but that's about it. 90s centers were more often the end goal, so it's not that they were bad passers, they just didn't do it as much. It's the same logic you're using to defend the post up game in today's era. And I don't want to hear anything about ball handling. Ya'll can't keep playing this game where ya'll say today's players are better ball handlers while also admitting that everything that they do that you consider to be an example of better ball handling wasn't done before because it wasn't legal. You don't think David Robinson could have run down the lane like Giannis if that was actually allowed back then?
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Your top end 90s guys were special but the rest of the league would not make it in the league. Even the top end guys are not guaranteed a starting spot because of their limitations. A 7 foot player with an elite post game, with great footwork and could score many ways could find a way to get major minutes in the 90s an and 00s plus have a long career. Today he’s out of the league after 5 years and it would have been shorter if he wasn’t a top pick.
 
Mutombo would be splashing step back corner threes like every other nigga in todays game.
 
NotRol said:
Your top end 90s guys were special but the rest of the league would not make it in the league. Even the top end guys are not guaranteed a starting spot because of their limitations. A 7 foot player with an elite post game, with great footwork and could score many ways could find a way to get major minutes in the 90s an and 00s plus have a long career. Today he’s out of the league after 5 years and it would have been shorter if he wasn’t a top pick.
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Like I said before, I do believe the league skill level on average is higher now than in the 90s because there were guys who had roles back then that really just equated to them being big and strong. So, to some extent, I agree with you.

I disagree with the rest of what you said. You basically described Hakeem. You're crazy if you think he'd be out of the league in 5 years now.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Like I said before, I do believe the league skill level on average is higher now than in the 90s because there were guys who had roles back then that really just equated to them being big and strong. So, to some extent, I agree with you.

I disagree with the rest of what you said. You basically described Hakeem. You're crazy if you think he'd be out of the league in 5 years now.
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To make it clear that was a player comp of Jahlil Okafur. Maybe i should have added lack of athleticism but that is a player who had by many built for the wrong era, who had a "bag" in the post yet couldnt see time aside from being serviceable on some of the worst teams ever.
 
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