After a person serves their jail/prison time, is the debt to society truly paid?

[DOS_patos]

or does the stigma still stick with them in your eyes?

im not talking about getting a job of apartment....im talking about in the eyes of society and you.

whats the point of a timed punishment if it will stay with you for life?

if they didnt pay their debt or we feel they are still bad people, then are we giving them a fair chance to integrate back into society? wouldnt that make/force them back into a life of crime?

 

[Chi-Town B]

Depends what they were in for, sexual abuse and pedophile shit should always carry that stigma along with murder.

 

[shutupGabi]

It's not but it should be.

 

[shutupGabi]

Depends what they were in for, sexual abuse and pedophile shit should always carry that stigma along with murder.

Those aren't properly punished to begin with. The max you get is 15 yrs and most dont even serve that. If crimes were given the right sentence in the first place we'd probly feel better about leaving people alone after coming home.

 

[DOS_patos]

Depends what they were in for, sexual abuse and pedophile shit should always carry that stigma along with murder.

so are you saying they cant pay their debt back no matter what?
even if it was their first time and they learned the error of their ways?

i totally understand why you would say that.

but what about murderers? some who killed more than 1 person at different times? should they ever be allowed to change and integrate?

its interesting how i seen people being cool with people who murdered someone. some even impressed and welcomed around.

so are we holding one thing about the other in terms of who gets a second chance?

 

[Chi-Town B]

With those type of crimes me personally I wouldn't be able to give a person the benefit of the doubt that they're reformed. What's stopping them from getting the urge that those people say they.

 

[DMorgan]

Those aren't properly punished to begin with. The max you get is 15 yrs and most dont even serve that. If crimes were given the right sentence in the first place we'd probly feel better about leaving people alone after coming home.

How do really determine whats the "right" sentence?

I don't care about why most people go to prison. Those that I do care about it depends on what they did ex. rape, child crimes, harming mentally or physically disabled people. Things along those lines makes you forever an ain't shit person to me.

 

[DMorgan]

so are you saying they cant pay their debt back no matter what?
even if it was their first time and they learned the error of their ways?

i totally understand why you would say that.

but what about murderers? some who killed more than 1 person at different times? should they ever be allowed to change and integrate?

its interesting how i seen people being cool with people who murdered someone. some even impressed and welcomed around.

so are we holding one thing about the other in terms of who gets a second chance?

I don't see the problem with the bold. A vigilante according to the law could be a murderer. You could kill the person who harmed your child . Now you a murderer, should folks no longer be cool with you?

Folks gotta be careful with how they view, over judge people, labels and situations

 

[Loquacious]

Man hell naw. That shit sticks with them.

 

[B_A]

We want them punished even after death when they go to "hell".

 

[1/2]

outside of murder or rape, no

shit does no good for anyone....its counter productive if the actual point is to rehabilitate and/or do society some sort of justice

 

[konceptjones]

outside of murder or rape, no

shit does no good for anyone....its counter productive if the actual point is to rehabilitate and/or do society some sort of justice

the circumstances have to be taken into account though.

One for murder was already posted, but to reiterate how do you view this man?



He murdered the man that kidnapped and raped his son. Surely you can't possibly view him the same way as a serial killer... Or even Ray Ray from around the corner that shot that one fiend over $5.

As for rape: Can you honestly say that a guy that was convicted of rape for fucking around and having drunk sex (while drunk himself) is the same as someone that rapes a chick at gunpoint? Can you not look at him differently?

A man caught stealing food for his family 'cause they're destitute and squatting in an abandoned building ain't the same as a cat stealing from a jewelry store so he can floss at the club.

A man that robs a bank because he's at the end of his rope and can't find a job to take care of his family is quite different from someone that robs a bank to feed a lavish lifestyle.

And because we don't know the circumstances behind every person in prison or that's been in prison, why wouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt up front?

 

[Duwop]

jail being a debt paid to society is a lie...


or at best, it's an extremely shitty way to pay your debt to society...

what good are you really doing other than not doing bad things in pubic...

to truly pay your debt you have to put the same amount of good in the world as you took out....

and since there really no way to judge that..

just keep contributing good things and don't stop until it becomes a part of you

 

[Chi-Town B]

When they're released are they really rehabilitated or did jail just make them worse.

 

[1/2]

the circumstances have to be taken into account though.

One for murder was already posted, but to reiterate how do you view this man?



He murdered the man that kidnapped and raped his son. Surely you can't possibly view him the same way as a serial killer... Or even Ray Ray from around the corner that shot that one fiend over $5.

As for rape: Can you honestly say that a guy that was convicted of rape for fucking around and having drunk sex (while drunk himself) is the same as someone that rapes a chick at gunpoint? Can you not look at him differently?

A man caught stealing food for his family 'cause they're destitute and squatting in an abandoned building ain't the same as a cat stealing from a jewelry store so he can floss at the club.

A man that robs a bank because he's at the end of his rope and can't find a job to take care of his family is quite different from someone that robs a bank to feed a lavish lifestyle.

And because we don't know the circumstances behind every person in prison or that's been in prison, why wouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt up front?

I mostly agree but we cant seriously expect police or even judges to sort this shit out on a circumstantial level

they have to show "control" and "force" to the public as well as to the families of the person killed (even if he did rape a kid) or what have you...

that would be nice but it would take a ton of work nobody can get rich off of......in other words not happening

 

[Elzo69Renaissance]

Fuck no

 

[1/2]

When they're released are they really rehabilitated or did jail just make them worse.

worse......niggas go in for weed and a janky pistol and come out with stripes, more connects, and that much less fear of prison and law enforcement in general

you can be held on a traffic ticket, a nigga picks a fight with you and bust him up.....now you got 2 fresh charges on top of the original, and they aint in no type of rush to see you about those....people waiting over a year to go to court and shit

there's people stuck in that shit right now that went in for the most minor offenses.....or no offense at all

rip Kalief Browder

 

[konceptjones]

jail being a debt paid to society is a lie...


or at best, it's an extremely shitty way to pay your debt to society...

what good are you really doing other than not doing bad things in pubic...

to truly pay your debt you have to put the same amount of good in the world as you took out....

and since there really no way to judge that..

just keep contributing good things and don't stop until it becomes a part of you

It's a lie here in America. It wasn't always like that though. Decades ago you went to prison, came out the other side and could move on with life. Jobs were open to you as long as you showed a sense of remorse for what you had done. Nowadays that ain't the case, and people are quick as fuck to judge you based on a criminal conviction no matter the circumstances that brought it about.

But, this isn't the case all over the world. I mentioned it once before for a different reason, but there was a thread over on Slashdot where the question was posed about getting a job in IT with a felony. By and large the posters from European countries side-eyed us Americans because of how we treat people with criminal records.

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/12/07/1332245/ask-slashdot-can-a-felon-work-in-it

a couple of examples:

"In most of Europe, criminal convictions is simply irrelevant to jobs. Some jobs require your record, but mostly not the full - only a limited record. For instance, if you work with kids, you need a record clean of child abuse and sexual assaults. But for a general job in IT? Noone would even ask about your record. I have not been asked ever - except for a visa application to the USA.

I believe the European system is better at integrating convicts back into society, stopping them from committing more crime"

and

"I don't know about other EU countries, but in The Netherlands employers can ask for a "declaration about the behaviour" of the applicant. That's a document the government issues, and the employer has to indicate what kind of possibly sensitive things the job requires, like working with children, working with large sums of money, with sensitive/secret information or with dangerous substances. If you're convicted for child abuse you still can get such a document for working in a bank, but not for a job in childcare (and in childcare the employer is required to ask for such a declaration). If you're convicted for bank fraud the opposite, you are still allowed to work with children.

That's all most employers can ask, and most won't ask it because if they indicate the job does not require to work with anything like that the declaration will always be given and it's a waste of money and effort. Employers can ask beyond this of course, but I've never heard of it happening and I even think you are legally allowed to lie, the same like an employer isn't allowed to ask if you're pregnant but if he does and you lie a court will not allow the contract to be broken for that."

 

[shutupGabi]

How do really determine whats the "right" sentence?

I don't care about why most people go to prison. Those that I do care about it depends on what they did ex. rape, child crimes, harming mentally or physically disabled people. Things along those lines makes you forever an ain't shit person to me.

I really dont know...lol. people much smarter than me have good ideas about it.

But I agree crimes of that nature is tied to other shit prison isn't equipped to rehabilitate. I have a theory that people's inability to respect a ex-con stems from the conscious or subconscious distrust in the system. They know the shit ain't fair and they know prison changes people for the worse more often than not and knowing that means they can't trust you.

 

[semi-auto-mato]

This world ain’t giving u shit. U don’t owe the world nothing. A nigga do 10 years and comes home I didn’t gain a damn thing from it. He might become productive or he might stick with crime. It’s on him.

I will absolutely look down on a rapist or child molester. I will look down on thieves. I will be friends with a killer depending on how it went down.