Depending on who somebody is you should have enough discernment to know whether or not you'll be taken seriouly and if it's a waste of time. Regardless of what position they hold, it still doesn't mean that they're not just fucking around. And given the rhetoric Cube has been known for for decades most people thought he'd be smart enough to know that Donald Trump ain't taking him seriously. So the vitriol he had for the Dems, and it wasn't that they initially declined to meet Cube himself stated he wanted a personal one on one meeting while they wanted him as part of a larger group of Black people to speak with, meanwhile seemingly being convinced that Trump was going to actually listen to him seriously. Yeah that threw people off.
Ice Cube Still Catching Heat
- Thread starter BlackRain
- Start date
Depending on who somebody is you should have enough discernment to know whether or not you'll be taken seriouly and if it's a waste of time. Regardless of what position they hold, it still doesn't mean that they're not just fucking around. And given the rhetoric Cube has been known for for decades most people thought he'd be smart enough to know that Donald Trump ain't taking him seriously. So the vitriol he had for the Dems, and it wasn't that they initially declined to meet Cube himself stated he wanted a personal one on one meeting while they wanted him as part of a larger group of Black people to speak with, meanwhile seemingly being convinced that Trump was going to actually listen to him seriously. Yeah that threw people off.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
To be blunt, all the people thinking like that are idiots. At the end of the day, they were just mad because to them Trump is Satan. It's fine to think of him like that. But Biden/Kamala aren't Jesus. They are Abbadon or Azazel or some other lower demon. Trying to get anything done in the Federal government means working with a devil. Those people are just mad because Cube sat down with the devil they don't like. Again, why are ya'll madder at Cube for pitching his idea to Trump than you are at Biden for not even meeting with him initially and not implementing any of the decent ideas that Cube proposed? I mean some of that shit could have been done with an EO and wasn't much different than the things he made a priority of doing for other groups like Asians and Trans people.
You're still not getting all of it right. They didnt decline a meeting with him. They extended the offer. He just wanted a personal one on one meeting instead and declined their offer. So that alone already shapes how he's telling the story. And yes part of it is because Trump is the devil They don't like. Part of it is also the expectatjons people had of Ice Cube to be able to peep game on shit that he seemingly got blindsided by. I mean he's openly giving props to Trump for meeting with him, doing interviews with Tucker Carlson while shitting on Dems...those optics could lead someone to think he was supporting Trump. He says it's not true and you gotta take him at his word. But to pretend to not know why someone would have gotten that perception is him not being completely honest.
konceptjones
The one between three and three.
I hear him say it back during that election cycle. He said the Dems looked at it and told him to wait until after the election. I'm pretty sure the video was posted here.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
lol Bro. He asked for meetings on the same terms with Trump and Biden. Trump accepted and Biden didn't. I don't know why you think he was blindsided by what happened. Trump had the right to admit to taking the meeting. Cube was justified in acknowledging that Trump took the meeting. The Dems could have done exactly what Trump did and cancelled all that out.
At the end of the day, I don't care that Trump used the meeting as a publicity stunt. I don't care about the Tucker Carlson shit. I care about the fact that Cube had some pretty decent ideas that he shopped around to people with power. Neither side gave a shit. You Dem sycophants are being ridiculous. You're mad at the message instead of the people that you support who rejected the message. Frankly, anyone thinking like that is an idiot.
It was both. After he turned down their initial meeting they said if he wanted a one on one it'd happen after the election and he said no
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
lol In other words, "Wait till you can't ruin shit for us when we reject your proposals outright."
I'm saying he's seemingly blindsided by not only him not being taken as seriously as he wanted but also people thinking based on his own words why he would be leaning a certain way.
I've said multiple times his plan wasn't the issue so idk why you keep saying that. Wasn't nobody with sense mad at him having the idea. It was the execution and things he did and said after that rubbed people wrong. You can't say you don't care or dismiss the shit with Tucker Carlson or Trump when that's the main reason some people felt the way they did about him then expect to actually understand why people took the issues they did. Especially if those are the avenues he was using to push said plan. Those things do matter in how his efforts are perceived whether you want them to or not
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
I don't think you're actually reading my posts bro. I didn't say anything about you or anyone else having a problem with his plan. I'm talking about ya'll having a problem with how he chose to shop the plan around. And that problem seems to be 100% just petty anger at the fact that he shopped it to people you don't like. That's stupid. Even if he didn't expect Trump to take him seriously. It still wasn't a bad idea to talk to Trump to put pressure on the Dems to take him seriously. But even that ploy wouldn't work because all the goofies in our community are so enslaved to the Dems that they can accept the idea of anyone refusing to just tow the line. That's crazy.
@Disanthrope is a clown, but he's more right about ya'll than I once believed. The Dems have absolutely no reason to do anything for us. They don't have to earn our loyalty. Our people will basically fight each other over any straying from the Dems quicker than we'll actually fight the Dem establishment over its failures. That's wild. Again, for the last time, ya'll are bashing Cube over talking to Trump and Tucker while giving Biden and Kamala a complete pass for not considering or trying to implement ANY of the things in the plan. How can you not see the problem there?
Playmaker88
Please say the Baby
Cube is also in bed with right wing figures so theres that...
I believe his financier of the big 3 is of that type snd there was something else thats slipping my mind
I believe his financier of the big 3 is of that type snd there was something else thats slipping my mind
Anger? No. Disappointed would be more accurate that he thought that was the best option at the time and now wants to play stupid about why people started to think the things they did. Even if it's not true, you can't ignore the why aspect of what may have led somebody to think he was on some maga shit. And people can take issue with how his plan was executed. There's nothing saying just because his plan was to help Black people that it can't be critiqued in how he went about it. Thats the blind loyalty you're supposedly criticizing on one end but expecting on another.
It has nothing to do with any loyalty to Dems. Because if you read my post I clearly said neither side was taking him seriously. So you viewing this from a pov of loyalty to Democrats is also blatantly wrong. I even said had Ice Cube presented this same idea in 2024 through the same avenues it would have been perceived much differently and even embraced. So you're clearly missing something in your interpretation of what I'm saying. So point out where I'm giving a pass or saying that he should have waited for Dems to listen to him?
You talking about the Steve Bannon/Qatar shit? That's a wild connection that Cube really ain't responsible for but more his Big 3 business partners.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Just consider this for a moment.
Cube shopped his plan to both Trump and Biden on the same terms. Trump agreed to meet with Cube 1 on 1. Biden initially tried to push Cube off other people in the campaign. Cube met with Trump, acknowledged that Trump met with him, and allowed Trump brag about having the meeting. The black community immediately attacked Cube. Biden pushed any possibility of a 1 on 1 meeting to after the election when all voting leverage would be gone. Biden had absolutely no reason to take Cube seriously because black people cut him off at the knees.
What if black people hadn't attacked Cube. What if our community gave off the impression of entertaining the idea of supporting Trump with the condition of him implementing parts of the plan even if we had no plans of actually doing it? What do you think the Dems would have done then? Isn't it possible that they would have had to take Cube more seriously? Isn't it possible, they might have tried to make some commitments to one up Trump? Before you say none of that was possible, remember this election. A bunch of bitter black women misandrists spread the lie that black men were going to vote for Trump because we hated black women and would never vote for one. The lie caught on, and what happened? Kamala actually put out policy proposals specifically to appeal to black men. That's the first time any presidential candidate had ever done that. We got campaign promises because of the reaction to a lie. Do you really not see why black people acting like attack dogs for the Dems is bad for us? Do you really not see how the black response to Cube and your now defense of that response undermined his efforts?
Playmaker88
Please say the Baby
Forgot about that but yea Jeff kwatinetz
Of course what you're stating is a possibility. There's no need for the "before you say"...because that indicates you're already predicting a response before you even get one and colors your reading and interpretation of anything else. Now likelihood is very different. Do I think given the landscape of what things were in 2020 that it would have pushed Dems to put out an agenda specific to Black men like they did in 2024? Again it's possible but not likely as the main thing in 2020 was "get Trump out" above anything else. So that was what Dems ran on. Which they tried to repeat in 2024 and people weren't as receptive to that. And that's why i said Ice Cube plan and execution would've went better now than in 2020 because he would've gotten the attention he wanted from both sides and possibly something tangible out of it.
By definition yes the reaction undermined his efforts but theres context to that as well...just as you asked me to consider your pov can you also consider how saying or hinting that taking issue with people having a problem with how he executed a plan also suggests that people subscribe to blind loyalty as well? Are people not allowed to criticize his plan and/or execution of the plan or should they just say nothing at all if its not 100% support?
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
Sure, people can criticize his execution, but how and why they criticize matters. If they are just jumping out of the gate and bashing him because he simply acknowledged the other candidate, that is not smart.
I can't say you're wrong about your assessment of the climate in 2020, but even if his efforts were going to ultimately fail, there was no reason for him to not at least try. Black people had no good reason to lambast him the way they did. Ultimately, reactions like that to every effort by a black person to get out of the box hurt us.
I've got much more respect for a celebrity like Cube trying to shop good ideas to whoever will listen than I do for someone like Steve Harvey who interviewed Kamala in front of a mostly black audience and opened the interview by telling that mostly black audience that they couldn't ask what she was going to do for black people. Steve should be getting the hate that Cube is getting, but few people gave a shit about that.
I agree that type of shit Steve Harvey did hurts more than it helps. I also understand that Steve Harvey is also, and this didn't really stop til millennials got older and called it out, part of a large group of older Black folks who were taught and had it drilled into their heads that simply having a seat at the table is enough. Looking back that was a huge part of why Obama got the turnout from Black voters in 2008 that he did. It was the last real successful push of it. The "representation politics" as some call it. Theres a big disconnect in those who are simply happy to see a Black face somewhere you don't normally see them.
I also agree that how and why people criticize matters. Which is why I said the context of things is important to note and that Cube pretending to be shocked at what people were thinking is surprising. Because he's shown himself to be smart enough to figure it out. The disappointment is rooted in people having respect and esteem for him not because they have loyalty to a political party.
I don't agree that Black people didn't have a right to call him out though. You may disagree with it, but if you're gonna pur yourself out there as representing the interests of Black people then you also open yourself up to criticisms in how those things are addressed. There was plenty of legit criticism in how he went about this. Not all of it is what you're trying paint it as this unfair bashing of Cube with no substance. Will it all be fair? No. But that's a part of the game he injected himself into. And expecting people to hold back their critiques does more hurt because then you get the same blind loyalty many claim to hate except when it agrees with their pov.
The Lonious Monk
Celestial Souljah
I didn't say that Black people didn't have the right to call him out. They did. I disagree with how and why they called him out. Again, had those people not defaulted to being attack dogs for the Dems and instead been more mindful of what he was trying to do, as a community we might have been able to push a response that actually helped in achieving our goals. All his critics succeeded in doing is robbing him of any perceived influence he might have had and completely eliminating any chance for his proposals to be taken seriously.
The thing about Trump is, he's more committed to himself and his own perception than any particular policy or stance. I actually think Trump could be convinced to do good things for black people if someone clever enough knew how to appeal to his ego. Like I'd bet money, Cube could have gotten Trump to do a couple of those things by simply assuring Trump that black people would consider him to be a better president than Obama if he did them. There's no way that could have happened if the general perception among black people was that Cube was a sellout for even talking to Trump.
If you see any criticism of what Cube did as being an attack dog for the Dems then you're showing youre not actually listening to some of the criticism that was given. Labeling all the criticism he received as that is not only false its disingenuous and hurts your argument because again it defaults to the pov that he can't be rightfully criticized. Just because you may not have liked or agreed with it doesn't make it invalid as you're trying to paint it as. Because some of the criticism was legit.
As for your 2nd paragraph that's exactly what I said when I said multiple times already Cube would've been more successful this time around. You literally just agreed with me after trying to say that criticism is coming at him like an attack dogs for Dems.
Black_Samson
OG
Remember the era where knowing who the next man voted for was taboo?
There use to be a kind of quiet dignity to voting.
Shit is literally turning into Idiocracy right before our very eyes.
And it’s in huge part due to Hollywood.
There use to be a kind of quiet dignity to voting.
Shit is literally turning into Idiocracy right before our very eyes.
And it’s in huge part due to Hollywood.