Lebron: Rings Shouldn't Matter; Rings Arent As Important In Other Sports

[BlackRain]

Rob bugged out. He should have addressed what was said. It was stupid and needed to be killed.

Just look at the bold. People talk about MJ getting bounced in the first round his first three years. MJ haters and Lebron fans throw it out all the time. Who cares though? He got drafted by a team that hadn't even made the playoffs in like a decade. Nobody expected him to get there and instantly make the team a championship contender by himself. I don't understand why people think that is some kind of dagger against MJ especially in defense of Lebron, when Lebron didn't even make the playoffs his first couple years. Also, it was nasty work from KD to act like MJ quit because he couldn't dedicate himself and not acknowledge that his father was murdered and he went to try and play baseball in honor of his father.

KD taking a shot at MJ's commitment to the game is wild. MJ arguably accomplished more in the game than Lebron and KD combined.

MJ (15 Seasons)
6 Championships
6 FMVPs
5 MVPs
1 DPOY
11 All-NBA Teams
9 All Defense Teams
13 Stat Crowns (10 Scoring, 3 Steals)
14 All Star-Appearances
3 All-Star MVPs
2 All-Star Event Wins (2 Dunk Contests)

Lebron and KD (39 Seasons, Lebron 22, KD 17)
6 Championships (Lebron 4, KD 2)
6 FMVPs (Lebron 4, KD 2)
5 MVPs (Lebron 4, KD 1)
0 DPOY
32 All-NBA Teams (Lebron 21, KD 11)
5 All Defense Teams (Lebron 5, KD 0)
6 Stat Crowns (Lebron Scoring 1 Assists 1, KD Scoring 4)
36 All-Star Appearances
5 All-Star MVPs (Lebron 3, KD 2)
0 All-Star Event Wins

That's legit crazy. Lebron and KD are both era defining players and have both played more years than MJ, and yet MJ still accomplished more than both combined.

That reaction from him is way more common than you probably see. And thats what people mean when they say some people don't have the ability to look at the situation without a pre existing bias or the need to down talk one in order to uplift another. The argument either way can be made either way without it boiling down to ranting insults but many in the media show they can't do that. To the point that people will flat out ignore MJs own comments on the topic itself.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

That reaction from him is way more common than you probably see. And thats what people mean when they say some people don't have the ability to look at the situation without a pre existing bias or the need to down talk one in order to uplift another. The argument either way can be made either way without it boiling down to ranting insults but many in the media show they can't do that. To the point that people will flat out ignore MJs own comments on the topic itself.

I don't feel like what MJ said was controversial or important. I don't think any of the 90s stars would have fared well in this era because they weren't raised in this era.

Making that the issue is dumb to me. I'm just tired of hearing the same "Nobody criticizes MJ" BS. That's the one part of Rob's rant I think was valid. MJ was probably more criticized by the media early on than Lebron. He was called a ball hog. They said he didn't play enough defense. They said he would never win a championship while being the scoring champion. They criticized his drinking, smoking, and gambling. They even suggested that he was in some way responsible for his father's death.

 

[BlackRain]

I don't feel like what MJ said was controversial or important. I don't think any of the 90s stars would have fared well in this era because they weren't raised in this era.

Making that the issue is dumb to me. I'm just tired of hearing the same "Nobody criticizes MJ" BS. That's the one part of Rob's rant I think was valid. MJ was probably more criticized by the media early on than Lebron. He was called a ball hog. They said he didn't play enough defense. They said he would never win a championship while being the scoring champion. They criticized his drinking, smoking, and gambling. They even suggested that he was in some way responsible for his father's death.

I meant MJ'S own comments on the whole goat debate. MJ stans act like they're doing a service to him when he has said multiple times he thinks the entire conversation is something you can never really know.

Regarding the social media thing though it does matter because there's a certain segment that thinks he's invincible and without flaw and would have conquered anything even things he himself said he wouldn't. Shit in Save The Last Dance there's a scene with reporter David Aldridge recounting how Magic told him and other reporters " You keep picking on MJ and you're gonna run him away from this game." Imagine that coming out about a player now. They'd be call all kindsof mentally soft and weak. Even you just dismissed what the man said about himself just now as "not important". How you gonna tell him better than him what and how he would've dealt with something?. That just comes off as being dismissive because it doesn't align with the image you want to personally keep up vs what the man himself is actually telling you.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I meant MJ'S own comments on the whole goat debate. MJ stans act like they're doing a service to him when he has said multiple times he thinks the entire conversation is something you can never really know.

The GOAT debate ain't for MJ though. The GOAT debate is for the fans. They are the ones that like arguing over shit like that. MJ is right. We can never definitively know who is the best. That doesn't mean it's wrong for fans of any player to engage in the discussion.

Regarding the social media thing though it does matter because there's a certain segment that thinks he's invincible and without flaw and would have conquered anything even things he himself said he wouldn't. Shit in Save The Last Dance there's a scene with reporter David Aldridge recounting how Magic told him and other reporters " You keep picking on MJ and you're gonna run him away from this game." Imagine that coming out about a player now. They'd be call all kindsof mentally soft and weak. Even you just dismissed what the man said about himself just now as "not important". How you gonna tell him better than him what and how he would've dealt with something?. That just comes off as being dismissive because it doesn't align with the image you want to personally keep up vs what the man himself is actually telling you.

Bruh, nobody thinks MJ was a literal basketball god that never missed a shot, lost a game, complained about foul, or made a mistake. Does MJ have fanboys that exaggerate his greatness to an unrealistic degree? You just referenced The Last Dance. That was as widely watched a basketball or MJ documentary as has ever existed. Didn't it go over the Bulls getting swept by the Celtics twice? Wasn't the Pistons whooppin the Bulls a major part of an episode? Didn't it show MJ turning over the ball in '95 leading to them losing that series? If the "MJ Puff Piece" showed all that, who is running around acting like MJ never failed.

I dismissed what he said because, as I explained, the MJ that exists now has no idea how he would have dealt with shit if he grew in this era. I'm not sure why that's controversial to say. It's all hypothetical. It would be like me claiming MJ would average 45 pts in today's league. I can believe that. Hell, MJ might believe that. It doesn't mean it's a fact.

 

[BlackRain]

The GOAT debate ain't for MJ though. The GOAT debate is for the fans. They are the ones that like arguing over shit like that. MJ is right. We can never definitively know who is the best. That doesn't mean it's wrong for fans of any player to engage in the discussion.



Bruh, nobody thinks MJ was a literal basketball god that never missed a shot, lost a game, complained about foul, or made a mistake. Does MJ have fanboys that exaggerate his greatness to an unrealistic degree? You just referenced The Last Dance. That was as widely watched a basketball or MJ documentary as has ever existed. Didn't it go over the Bulls getting swept by the Celtics twice? Wasn't the Pistons whooppin the Bulls a major part of an episode? Didn't it show MJ turning over the ball in '95 leading to them losing that series? If the "MJ Puff Piece" showed all that, who is running around acting like MJ never failed.

I dismissed what he said because, as I explained, the MJ that exists now has no idea how he would have dealt with shit if he grew in this era. I'm not sure why that's controversial to say. It's all hypothetical. It would be like me claiming MJ would average 45 pts in today's league. I can believe that. Hell, MJ might believe that. It doesn't mean it's a fact.

GOAT debate ain't the issue. It's the shitting on other players to prop another up that consistently stands out. To the point it leads to people going on nonsensical rants like Rob Parker where he shows he's an MJ stan triggered at the mere mention of LeBron because there was no reason for that reaction to that statement.

Controversial no. But it doesn't make sense to tell somebody how they would react to something when they're telling you differently especially when there's evidence that points to what that person is saying as being the more accurate reaction. Yes I referenced The Last Dance because it speaks to the pressure MJ was dealing with at the time and real time talk around his feelings about it. You just ignored that part. Yes The Last Dance referenced those losses and that still don't stop the mythical status people place him on. You seemingly only ever come across Bron superstans because damn near everytime someone mentions an extreme arguments some Jordan fans make you try to say it doesn't exist. Yes despite your denials and non answer to your own question he does have fan boys that overexgggerate him to an unrealistic degree. Even trying to sarcastically reference The Last Dance as a "puff piece" shows you being further dismissive of the things said about him that don't line up with the view you want to maintain of him.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

GOAT debate ain't the issue. It's the shitting on other players to prop another up that consistently stands out. To the point it leads to people going on nonsensical rants like Rob Parker where he shows he's an MJ stan triggered at the mere mention of LeBron because there was no reason for that reaction to that statement.

Rob didn't rant out of his MJ fandom. He ranted because he dislikes Lebron's ways. He's spoken about that on several occasions. The GOAT debate and distaste for Lebron sometimes get conflated. Rob is definitely one of those people that's just tired of Lebron. I believe he went on record saying he's ready for Lebron to retire.

Controversial no. But it doesn't make sense to tell somebody how they would react to something when they're telling you differently especially when there's evidence that points to what that person is saying as being the more accurate reaction. Yes I referenced The Last Dance because it speaks to the pressure MJ was dealing with at the time and real time talk around his feelings about it. You just ignored that part. Yes The Last Dance referenced those losses and that still don't stop the mythical status people place him on. You seemingly only ever come across Bron superstans because damn near everytime someone mentions an extreme arguments some Jordan fans make you try to say it doesn't exist. Yes despite your denials and non answer to your own question he does have fan boys that overexgggerate him to an unrealistic degree. Even trying to sarcastically reference The Last Dance as a "puff piece" shows you being further dismissive of the things said about him that don't line up with the view you want to maintain of him.

I'm not telling MJ how he would react. I don't know how he would react if he was born and raised in the same era as modern players, and neither does he because he'd be a different person.

Bruh, sometimes I think you just be writing to write. How did I ignore that MJ felt pressure? Of course he felt pressure. So what? It didn't stop him from performing so what difference does it make? All players, even the best, feel pressure.

And I'm fully aware that MJ superstans exist. What I've never seen is people that say shit like "MJ never missed a big shot" or "MJ never lost a game." Lebron stans and MJ haters love to act like those are common narratives, but I have yet to see anyone ever say that. If you have, give me an example. I bash Lebron stans all day, but you've never seen me come on here and say no dumb shit like "Lebron fans act like he's hit every free throw" or "Lebron stans act like he's never had a bad game." I would never say anything like that because it's a lie. I've never seen any Lebron stan say anything that extreme. And you've never seen an MJ stan say that he never lost a playoff series, yet Nick Wright and others are constantly claiming that's a common narrative.

 

[BlackRain]

Rob didn't rant out of his MJ fandom. He ranted because he dislikes Lebron's ways. He's spoken about that on several occasions. The GOAT debate and distaste for Lebron sometimes get conflated. Rob is definitely one of those people that's just tired of Lebron. I believe he went on record saying he's ready for Lebron to retire.




I'm not telling MJ how he would react. I don't know how he would react if he was born and raised in the same era as modern players, and neither does he because he'd be a different person.

Bruh, sometimes I think you just be writing to write. How did I ignore that MJ felt pressure? Of course he felt pressure. So what? It didn't stop him from performing so what difference does it make? All players, even the best, feel pressure.

And I'm fully aware that MJ superstans exist. What I've never seen is people that say shit like "MJ never missed a big shot" or "MJ never lost a game." Lebron stans and MJ haters love to act like those are common narratives, but I have yet to see anyone ever say that. If you have, give me an example. I bash Lebron stans all day, but you've never seen me come on here and say no dumb shit like "Lebron fans act like he's hit every free throw" or "Lebron stans act like he's never had a bad game." I would never say anything like that because it's a lie. I've never seen any Lebron stan say anything that extreme. And you've never seen an MJ stan say that he never lost a playoff series, yet Nick Wright and others are constantly claiming that's a common narrative.

But as his cohost said, the debate was about KD and Rob went on a rant about Lebron. It made him look silly as hell.

As for the pressure judging by his own words you could easily say it was a huge contributing factor to walking away from the game the 1st 2 times he retired. Yes there were other reasons, but he openly acknowledged that the pressure and stress was a contributing factor.

The keyword you keep saying is "I". Just because you say you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And other posters have told you it does as well. And there's literally been at this point decades worth of content produced with articles, discussions and debates of people saying shit like "You know MJ would've hit that shot." "Players were scared of MJ." And 1001 scenarios of how MJ would do *insert things here* better than whatever random NBA player is brought up. A bunch of "MJ never complained to or about the refs." "MJ never flopped" "MJ never got tired" "Replace LeBron with MJ on any of his teams and they win 10 championships".

There's become this cult like following behind defending any perceived slight to his legacy that it becomes damn near impossible to discuss the man if you don't talk him as perfect

 

[BlackRain]

Shit like this. Highlight reels with titles like these have warped alot of perception that MJ was this perfect player who lit it up 82 games a year and never had an off night

 

[Goldie]

 

[Loneshot]

If Wade could get one with Shaq outside his prime, T Mac definitely gets one with Shaq with both in their prime.

The problem with this weird T Mac/Kobe debate is that T Mac became injury prone almost as soon as he became elite in Orlando. Considering how brutal the West playoffs were all the years Kobe won with and without Shaq, I doubt T Mac's body would have held up to match the three-peat with Shaq.

I remember when the general consensus was that TMac was better than Kobe, almost clearly, but TMac was always hurt.

 

[BlackRain]

If Wade could get one with Shaq outside his prime, T Mac definitely gets one with Shaq with both in their prime.

The problem with this weird T Mac/Kobe debate is that T Mac became injury prone almost as soon as he became elite in Orlando. Considering how brutal the West playoffs were all the years Kobe won with and without Shaq, I doubt T Mac's body would have held up to match the three-peat with Shaq.

I remember when the general consensus was that TMac was better than Kobe, almost clearly, but TMac was always hurt.

Yeah TMac over Kobe was a thing especially before Kobe became a media darling. Those early to mid 2000s TMac was definitely seen as just as good or better than Kobe

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Nick is a Kobe dick eater.

I don't know if the Lakers would 3-peat with T-Mac, but they definitely would have won one.

 

[Goldie]

Yeah TMac over Kobe was a thing especially before Kobe became a media darling.

T-Mac >> Kobe was never a thing.

The early 2000s was the only time Kobe was a "media darling", the media has been anti Kobe since 2004.

 

[BlackRain]

T-Mac >> Kobe was never a thing.

The early 2000s was the only time Kobe was a "media darling", the media has been anti Kobe since 2004.

Nah. When Shaq left the Lakers, Kobe caught those charges then demanded a trade on live radio the media was not on his side. That change didn't happen til he won that 1st ring without Shaq and they did the whole Kobe finally learns to be a teammate story and not an asshole to everyone stories.

That negative coverage lead to a few players being pitted as being better than him. T Mac, D. Wade were the 2 most prominent

 

[Goldie]

Nah. When Shaq left the Lakers, Kobe caught those charges then demanded a trade on live radio the media was not on his side. That change didn't happen til he won that 1st ring without Shaq and they did the whole Kobe finally learns to be a teammate story and not an asshole to everyone stories.

That negative coverage lead to a few players being pitted as being better than him. T Mac, D. Wade were the 2 most prominent

Once Denver happened, the media stopped fucking Kobe and plus Lebron just came in the league, it was a wrap from that point on.


But if go back to player interviews during those years, the consensus was Kobe was the best in the game.

 

[Griot Vision]

Hmm, I remember those T-Mac vs Kobe debates, hella intense and a legit back and forth

 

[Loneshot]

Once Denver happened, the media stopped fucking Kobe and plus Lebron just came in the league, it was a wrap from that point on.


But if go back to player interviews during those years, the consensus was Kobe was the best in the game.

I feel like the whole league was anti-Kobe up until his retirement year. From the Paul trade being nixed to how bad some of those post -Shaq Laker rosters were, it really felt like both the team (LA) and the league wanted Kobe to fail. Outside of Fisher, Ariza, and Artest, it always looked like Kobe had to beg his teammates to play their hardest.

I swear Sasha Vujacic only hit a dozen threes his whole Laker career. Gasol wasn't as soft as the criticism, but it definitely felt like he had to learn to go to a new level once the Lakers were going for a title. Bynum was always hurt. Odom was inconsistent and not nearly as aggressive as he was in Miami.

Kobe really was carrying a lot on his shoulders even when he won the two post-Shaq rings.

I say all that to say even during all of that, Kobe was rarely seen as the consensus best player in the league. If it wasn't TMac, it was somebody else. I truly believe Kobe had no friends in the NBA because he was too competitive to play more politics to be more likable.

 

[BlackRain]

I feel like the whole league was anti-Kobe up until his retirement year. From the Paul trade being nixed to how bad some of those post -Shaq Laker rosters were, it really felt like both the team (LA) and the league wanted Kobe to fail. Outside of Fisher, Ariza, and Artest, it always looked like Kobe had to beg his teammates to play their hardest.

I swear Sasha Vujacic only hit a dozen threes his whole Laker career. Gasol wasn't as soft as the criticism, but it definitely felt like he had to learn to go to a new level once the Lakers were going for a title. Bynum was always hurt. Odom was inconsistent and not nearly as aggressive as he was in Miami.

Kobe really was carrying a lot on his shoulders even when he won the two post-Shaq rings.

I say all that to say even during all of that, Kobe was rarely seen as the consensus best player in the league. If it wasn't TMac, it was somebody else. I truly believe Kobe had no friends in the NBA because he was too competitive to play more politics to be more likable.

He got some good will after the 1st ring without Shaq up until he fucked his shoulder up right before the Achilles tear. Before that he was called selfish again for taking a contract that hampered the roster. Then he got hurt, shot that free throw and got the media back on his side right before he retired.