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Missy Elliot Nominated For Songwriter's Hall of Fame

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The Associated Press obtained the list of nominees for the 2019 class, a day ahead of its official announcement, and Missy is among the list of performing nominees. If inducted she’ll be the third rapper to enter the organization. Jay-Z was inducted back in 2017, and Jermaine Dupri was inducted earlier this year.

Joining Missy as a performing nominee is Mariah Carey, who received her first nomination last year. Chrissie Hynde, Vince Gill, Mike Love, Jimmy Cliff, Jeff Lynne, Cat Stevens, John Prine, Lloyd Price, Tommy James, and the Eurythmics (Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart) are among the other nominees.



Non-performing nominees include Jack Tempchin, Dean Dillon, Jerry Fuller, Tom T. Hall, Roger Nichols, and Dallas Austin.

Nominees for non-performing songwriting duos include P.F. Sloan and Steve Barri, Russell Brown and the late Irwin Levine, musical theater writers Lynn Ahrens and Stephen Flaherty, Dean Pitchford and Michael Gore, Dan Penn and Spooner Oldham, Bobby Hart and the late Tommy Boyce.



A total of six songwriters or songwriting groups will be inducted during the 50th annual Induction & Awards Gala in New York City on June 13th, 2019.
 
If you a fly gal, get your nails done
Get a pedicure, get your hair did
Boy, lift it up, let's make a toast-a
Let's get drunk, that's gonna bring us closer
Don't I look like a Halle Berry poster?
See the Belvedere playing tricks on ya
Girlfriend wanna be like me, never
You won't find a bitch that's even better
I make you hot as Las Vegas weather
Listen up close while I take it backwards

I Don't Get It The Praise

Maybe It's Her Videos
 
So the rappers that have been nominated so far are Jay-Z, Jermaine Dupri, and Missy. I can give them Jay, but it's an insult to rappers everywhere for JD and Missy to be on that list. No hate on them, but there are dozens of better songwriters than either of them.
 
NAWLEDGE_GOD said:
If you a fly gal, get your nails done
Get a pedicure, get your hair did
Boy, lift it up, let's make a toast-a
Let's get drunk, that's gonna bring us closer
Don't I look like a Halle Berry poster?
See the Belvedere playing tricks on ya
Girlfriend wanna be like me, never
You won't find a bitch that's even better
I make you hot as Las Vegas weather
Listen up close while I take it backwards

I Don't Get It The Praise

Maybe It's Her Videos
Click to expand...

The Lonious Monk said:
So the rappers that have been nominated so far are Jay-Z, Jermaine Dupri, and Missy. I can give them Jay, but it's an insult to rappers everywhere for JD and Missy to be on that list. No hate on them, but there are dozens of better songwriters than either of them.
Click to expand...


There's a difference between lyrics and songwriting. MCs like Black Thought, GZA, Pharaoh Monch, Common, Mos Def and other rappers that are considered 'lyrical' aren't necessarily great songwriters. The art of songwriting isn't being complex, rather, its the ability to convey emotions through words. Generally speaking the masses of people appreciate simple lyrics rather than complex lyrics. This can be proven quantitatively by comparing record sales.

Great songwriting.

  • Planet Rock - Africa Bambaattaa and the Soul Sonic Force
  • Top Billin - Audio Two
  • Boys In The Hood (Remix) - Eazy E
  • Let me Clear My Throat - DJ Kool
  • It Takes Two - Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock
  • Keep Their Heads Ringin - Dr Dre
  • I Ain't Mad At Cha - 2Pac
  • 10 Crack Commandments
  • Back That Ass Up - Juvenille
  • Nuthin But A G Thing - Dre & Snoop

Great Lyrics

  • Winter Warz - Ghostface feat Cappadonna
  • One More Chance - Biggie
  • Uni-Verse @ War - The Roots
  • Stillmatic Freestyle - Nas
  • Follow The Leader - Eric B & Rakim
  • My Philosophy - Boogie Down Productions
  • Triumph - Wu Tang Clan
  • Girls Girls Girls - Jay Z
  • Renegade - Jay Z & Eminem
  • Get By - Talib Kweli




^^^ After making that list it occurred to me that it can be summed up by saying Nas is the best lyricist and Jay is the best songwriter and/or Big was the better lyricist but Pac was the better songwriter.
 
5 Grand said:
There's a difference between lyrics and songwriting. MCs like Black Thought, GZA, Pharaoh Monch, Common, Mos Def and other rappers that are considered 'lyrical' aren't necessarily great songwriters. The art of songwriting isn't being complex, rather, its the ability to convey emotions through words. Generally speaking the masses of people appreciate simple lyrics rather than complex lyrics. This can be proven quantitatively by comparing record sales.

Great songwriting.

  • Planet Rock - Africa Bambaattaa and the Soul Sonic Force
  • Top Billin - Audio Two
  • Boys In The Hood (Remix) - Eazy E
  • Let me Clear My Throat - DJ Kool
  • It Takes Two - Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock
  • Keep Their Heads Ringin - Dr Dre
  • I Ain't Mad At Cha - 2Pac
  • 10 Crack Commandments
  • Back That Ass Up - Juvenille
  • Nuthin But A G Thing - Dre & Snoop

Great Lyrics

  • Winter Warz - Ghostface feat Cappadonna
  • One More Chance - Biggie
  • Uni-Verse @ War - The Roots
  • Stillmatic Freestyle - Nas
  • Follow The Leader - Eric B & Rakim
  • My Philosophy - Boogie Down Productions
  • Triumph - Wu Tang Clan
  • Girls Girls Girls - Jay Z
  • Renegade - Jay Z & Eminem
  • Get By - Talib Kweli




^^^ After making that list it occurred to me that it can be summed up by saying Nas is the best lyricist and Jay is the best songwriter and/or Big was the better lyricist but Pac was the better songwriter.
Click to expand...

I see your point. I'd like to know what their standards are though. If they put a lot of weight on the songs that catch on, your take is probably right. Still if they are talking about depth and quality of writing, I still can't see Missy being on the short list of rappers they choose.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
So the rappers that have been nominated so far are Jay-Z, Jermaine Dupri, and Missy. I can give them Jay, but it's an insult to rappers everywhere for JD and Missy to be on that list. No hate on them, but there are dozens of better songwriters than either of them.
Click to expand...

Both JD & Missy have written more than hip hop songs. I'm sure their writing in R&B was considered most.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
I see your point. I'd like to know what their standards are though. If they put a lot of weight on the songs that catch on, your take is probably right. Still if they are talking about depth and quality of writing, I still can't see Missy being on the short list of rappers they choose.
Click to expand...

I don't know who the songwriters Hall of Fame consists of. Probably ordinary musicians and songwriters, not Hip Hop artists. An ordinary musician/songwriter can't appreciate the way Black Thought or GZA raps, they probably don't understand the lyrics.

In all likelyhood, the people in the songwriter's Hall of Fame can understand simple lyrics, like the kind of stuff that Missy writes.
 
5 Grand said:
There's a difference between lyrics and songwriting. MCs like Black Thought, GZA, Pharaoh Monch, Common, Mos Def and other rappers that are considered 'lyrical' aren't necessarily great songwriters. The art of songwriting isn't being complex, rather, its the ability to convey emotions through words. Generally speaking the masses of people appreciate simple lyrics rather than complex lyrics. This can be proven quantitatively by comparing record sales.

Great songwriting.

  • Planet Rock - Africa Bambaattaa and the Soul Sonic Force
  • Top Billin - Audio Two
  • Boys In The Hood (Remix) - Eazy E
  • Let me Clear My Throat - DJ Kool
  • It Takes Two - Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock
  • Keep Their Heads Ringin - Dr Dre
  • I Ain't Mad At Cha - 2Pac
  • 10 Crack Commandments
  • Back That Ass Up - Juvenille
  • Nuthin But A G Thing - Dre & Snoop

Great Lyrics

  • Winter Warz - Ghostface feat Cappadonna
  • One More Chance - Biggie
  • Uni-Verse @ War - The Roots
  • Stillmatic Freestyle - Nas
  • Follow The Leader - Eric B & Rakim
  • My Philosophy - Boogie Down Productions
  • Triumph - Wu Tang Clan
  • Girls Girls Girls - Jay Z
  • Renegade - Jay Z & Eminem
  • Get By - Talib Kweli




^^^ After making that list it occurred to me that it can be summed up by saying Nas is the best lyricist and Jay is the best songwriter and/or Big was the better lyricist but Pac was the better songwriter.
Click to expand...






Please explain how these aren't examples of excellent songwriting...

Also, the mere fact that these "lyricists" sold well negates this statement:

"Generally speaking the masses of people appreciate simple lyrics rather than complex lyrics. This can be proven quantitatively by comparing record sales."

Nas has 5 platinum albums (Illmatic, Streets Disciple, Stillmatic, God's Son, Nastradamus), two double platinum albums (It Was Written and I Am...), and one gold album (Hip Hop is Dead).
Wu-Tang Clan has a triple platinum album (Enter the 36 Chambers), a quadruple platinum album (Wu-Tang Forever), a platinum album (The W), and a gold album (Iron Flag)
Rakim has 1 platinum album (Paid In Full ) and three gold albums (Follow The Leader, Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em, and The 18th Letter)
Common has three gold albums (Like Water for Chocolate, Be, Finding Forever)
Ghostface Killah has one platinum and one gold album (Ironman and Supreme Clientele respectively)
B.D.P. had three gold albums (By All Means Necessary, Edutainment, and The Blueprint...)
The Roots has 1 platinum album (Things Fall Apart) and two gold albums (Do You Want More and Phrenology)

Even the most unpopular cat in that list, Talib Kweli, has a gold album (Quality).

Clearly somebody appreciates complex lyrics.
 
Jonah said:
Both JD & Missy have written more than hip hop songs. I'm sure their writing in R&B was considered most.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

5 Grand said:
I don't know who the songwriters Hall of Fame consists of. Probably ordinary musicians and songwriters, not Hip Hop artists. An ordinary musician/songwriter can't appreciate the way Black Thought or GZA raps, they probably don't understand the lyrics.

In all likelyhood, the people in the songwriter's Hall of Fame can understand simple lyrics, like the kind of stuff that Missy writes.
Click to expand...

You're probably right.
 
konceptjones said:





Please explain how these aren't examples of excellent songwriting...

Also, the mere fact that these "lyricists" sold well negates this statement:

"Generally speaking the masses of people appreciate simple lyrics rather than complex lyrics. This can be proven quantitatively by comparing record sales."

Nas has 5 platinum albums (Illmatic, Streets Disciple, Stillmatic, God's Son, Nastradamus), two double platinum albums (It Was Written and I Am...), and one gold album (Hip Hop is Dead).
Wu-Tang Clan has a triple platinum album (Enter the 36 Chambers), a quadruple platinum album (Wu-Tang Forever), a platinum album (The W), and a gold album (Iron Flag)
Rakim has 1 platinum album (Paid In Full ) and three gold albums (Follow The Leader, Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em, and The 18th Letter)
Common has three gold albums (Like Water for Chocolate, Be, Finding Forever)
Ghostface Killah has one platinum and one gold album (Ironman and Supreme Clientele respectively)
B.D.P. had three gold albums (By All Means Necessary, Edutainment, and The Blueprint...)
The Roots has 1 platinum album (Things Fall Apart) and two gold albums (Do You Want More and Phrenology)

Even the most unpopular cat in that list, Talib Kweli, has a gold album (Quality).

Clearly somebody appreciates complex lyrics.
Click to expand...



"Please explain how these aren't examples of excellent songwriting..."

Gladly. None of those songs by Eric B and Rakim made the top 40 when they were released. I was in high school at the time and used to go to school dances where there was a DJ. the song Eric B is President would get the party started but otherwise those songs you posted didn't pack the dancefloor.

Good songwriting isn't complex lyrics that you need a thesaurus to decode the meaning. Good songwriting is simple lyrics with a catchy hook.

As far as record sales are concerned, you start off by saying that Nas has 5 platinum albums, but his most critically acclaimed album, Illmatic, didn't go gold in the year it was released, while Ready To Die went double platinum in the the same year due to singles like Juicy and Big Poppa which were more direct and less complex. Doggystyle came out around the same time and went 4X plat.

Just about all of the records you listed don't really prove anything. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice went diamond. Will Smith is @ 9X Platinum. Nelly went diamond.

It's true that sometimes a lyrical miracle rapper can go gold, or platinum. But we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that was the norm. Also, going gold, or platinum doesn't really prove your point. In fact, it proves my point. There's a ceiling to how much a lyrical rapper can sell. If you want to break through that ceiling you have to dumb down your lyrics.

Q. What did Jay say about Common Sense?

A. I did 5 mil and ain't been rappin like Common sense.
 
5 Grand said:
There's a difference between lyrics and songwriting. MCs like Black Thought, GZA, Pharaoh Monch, Common, Mos Def and other rappers that are considered 'lyrical' aren't necessarily great songwriters. The art of songwriting isn't being complex, rather, its the ability to convey emotions through words. Generally speaking the masses of people appreciate simple lyrics rather than complex lyrics. This can be proven quantitatively by comparing record sales.

Great songwriting.

  • Planet Rock - Africa Bambaattaa and the Soul Sonic Force
  • Top Billin - Audio Two
  • Boys In The Hood (Remix) - Eazy E
  • Let me Clear My Throat - DJ Kool
  • It Takes Two - Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock
  • Keep Their Heads Ringin - Dr Dre
  • I Ain't Mad At Cha - 2Pac
  • 10 Crack Commandments
  • Back That Ass Up - Juvenille
  • Nuthin But A G Thing - Dre & Snoop

Great Lyrics

  • Winter Warz - Ghostface feat Cappadonna
  • One More Chance - Biggie
  • Uni-Verse @ War - The Roots
  • Stillmatic Freestyle - Nas
  • Follow The Leader - Eric B & Rakim
  • My Philosophy - Boogie Down Productions
  • Triumph - Wu Tang Clan
  • Girls Girls Girls - Jay Z
  • Renegade - Jay Z & Eminem
  • Get By - Talib Kweli




^^^ After making that list it occurred to me that it can be summed up by saying Nas is the best lyricist and Jay is the best songwriter and/or Big was the better lyricist but Pac was the better songwriter.
Click to expand...

What he said...there is a reason certain acts get bigger than others. Songwriting will often take u further than lyrical skills. Nelly and Ja Rule are great examples of great songwriting separating artist from their peers
 
5 Grand said:
"Please explain how these aren't examples of excellent songwriting..."

Gladly. None of those songs by Eric B and Rakim made the top 40 when they were released. I was in high school at the time and used to go to school dances where there was a DJ. the song Eric B is President would get the party started but otherwise those songs you posted didn't pack the dancefloor.

Good songwriting isn't complex lyrics that you need a thesaurus to decode the meaning. Good songwriting is simple lyrics with a catchy hook.

As far as record sales are concerned, you start off by saying that Nas has 5 platinum albums, but his most critically acclaimed album, Illmatic, didn't go gold in the year it was released, while Ready To Die went double platinum in the the same year due to singles like Juicy and Big Poppa which were more direct and less complex. Doggystyle came out around the same time and went 4X plat.

Just about all of the records you listed don't really prove anything. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice went diamond. Will Smith is @ 9X Platinum. Nelly went diamond.

It's true that sometimes a lyrical miracle rapper can go gold, or platinum. But we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that was the norm. Also, going gold, or platinum doesn't really prove your point. In fact, it proves my point. There's a ceiling to how much a lyrical rapper can sell. If you want to break through that ceiling you have to dumb down your lyrics.

Q. What did Jay say about Common Sense?

A. I did 5 mil and ain't been rappin like Common sense.
Click to expand...

"Casualties of War" charted at #23 on the US R&B chart and #11 on the US Rap chart
"Mahogany" charted at #28 on the US Rap chart
"Know The Ledge" peaked at #36 and #7 on the US R&b and Rap charts respectively.

Good songwriting isn't "simple lyrics with a catchy hook", if that was the case then D4L and Souljaboy would be kangs of songwriting but they're on nobody's radar for that.

As far as sales is concerned... Ahmet Ertegun, founder of Atlantic Records and longtime friend of Ray Charles and damned near anyone else you can think of in the music industry once said "Just because you've sold millions of records doesn't mean you’re good. McDonald’s sells a lot of hamburgers.”

I posted those numbers to say exactly what I wrote: Somebody likes those complex lyrics enough to buy 'em. WuTang already showed that they ain't hafta dumb nothin down to sell 4x platinum, meaning that Jay didn't either. But at the same time Jay was never flippin shit like Nas, Com, Rakim, or anyone in Wu, so if he claims he had to dumb it down in order to sell, he didn't have to dumb it down that much and it REALLY means his shit wasn't that good in the first place..

Using sales as a measure of whether or not something is artistically "good" is flawed and people in the industry know this. It's long been known that the more artistic and creative you are with your music, the less of it you're likely to sell. This extends to all genres. It's the reason classic Jazz doesn't sell nearly as much as "smooth jazz", why more traditional House and Techno artists ain't gettin spins or sales like these "EDM" cats, and why mumble rap and shit like that is killin it in sales. The shit ain't sweet; it's just pasteurized and sanitized for the masses.
 
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