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2024 NFL Season Thread

Added to Calendar: 09-08-24

Bow to Royalty said:
This still is shaky to me.

1. Dude just said he thought Coughlin would be a good fit. That doesn't mean the Bengals were only interested in Coughlin, or that he was even their favorite going in.

2. Bengals had a black assistant coach on staff they also interviewed. Since they had that planned, the Rooney Rule was met. So the Lewis interview was something they chose to do - not had to do.

Seems like they could have just had a legit interest in Lewis.
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You're just talking shit man, grasping for anything to not concede that it has helped black coaches get hired.

I read somewhere that Lewis was the DC for a historic defense (Ravens), but still had a hard time getting interviews in the years before the rule. But then when there was all this discussion about the underrepresentation of black coaches in the league when he was hired, and so he was hired. He was actually hired before the rule was formally adopted. No matter. The atmosphere at the time was changed because of all the discussion going on at the time.

And Coughlin was the favorite. But think whatever you want.
 
Gray Matter said:
You're just talking shit man, grasping for anything to not concede that it has helped black coaches get hired.

I read somewhere that Lewis was the DC for a historic defense (Ravens), but still had a hard time getting interviews in the years before the rule. But then when there was all this discussion about the underrepresentation of black coaches in the league when he was hired, and so he was hired. He was actually hired before the rule was formally adopted. No matter. The atmosphere at the time was changed because of all the discussion going on at the time.

And Coughlin was the favorite. But think whatever you want.
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This is what i said earlier. There were social and cultural changes going on, and that led to an increase in black HC being hired. The NBA went from averaging 5 black HC's in the 90's to half the league having a black HC's. No rule... just a reflection of the times changing.

I asked who it got a job, and you named one coach that was hired before it went into effect, and that the team didn't have to interview to comply with the rule even if it was in place?

Ya I'm trippin. Coughlin was the frontrunner the whole time.

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Gray Matter said:
You're just talking shit man, grasping for anything to not concede that it has helped black coaches get hired.
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Damn Demaurice Smith (former head of the NFLPA) and all his research must just be talking shit and grasping at straws too.

Link to the entire document

The Rooney Suggestion: How the “Rule” Has Failed to Defeat Institutional Barriers to Equitable Hiring Practices in the NFL and Recommendations for Meaningful Reform | Yale Law & Policy Review

yalelawandpolicy.org yalelawandpolicy.org

"Statistical evidence confirms that the Rooney Rule is not serving its intended purpose.[50] In the twenty years since the Rooney Rule was passed, only 11% of head coaching positions have been filled by Black candidates, and many of these candidates have been fired before receiving the same opportunity to prove their worth as their white peers.[51] Similar disparities exist at the offensive coordinator, quarterback coach, and general manager positions, despite the Rooney Rule’s expansion to apply to those roles as well. This suggests that systemic flaws and lack of oversight limit the Rooney Rule’s ability to drive real change.

In March 2022, University of Miami sociologist Alexis Piquero conducted a statistical analysis examining the efficacy of the Rooney Rule over the last eight years. Piquero tracked NFL head coaching interviews and outcomes and found that white candidates who interview for NFL head coaching positions are three times more likely to be hired than their non-white peers, even after controlling for age, number of opportunities, and previous coaching experience.[52] Piquero also found that Black interviewees are roughly four times less likely to be hired for head coaching positions than all other candidates, controlling for age, number of opportunities, playing experience, offensive or defensive coordinator experience, and prior experience serving as an NFL head coach.[53] Piquero’s findings are statistically significant, and they suggest that the Rooney Rule is not working."
 
Gray Matter said:
You're just talking shit man, grasping for anything to not concede that it has helped black coaches get hired.
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"
The raw data Piquero examined paints an even clearer picture of the Rooney Rule’s failure. NFL teams interviewed 121 candidates for 56 open head coaching positions between the beginning of 2015 and the end of the 2022 hiring cycle.[54] One out of every three interviews NFL teams conducted during this span was with a Black candidate, however, only eight Black candidates ended up being hired.[55] According to Piquero’s model, if the Rooney Rule was working, a race-neutral hiring scheme based on the interviews teams conducted would predict the hiring of ten additional Black head coaching candidates since the beginning of 2015.[56] Notably, all eight candidates NFL teams did decide to hire during this window have already been fired.[57]

A 2022 study conducted by FiveThirtyEight replicated Piquero’s findings using different methodology. FiveThirtyEight examined the background and demographic characteristics of twenty-five reported finalists for each of nine open head coaching positions in the 2021-2022 NFL hiring cycle. It found that while finalists who went on to be hired as head coaches tended to be younger, have more experience working as NFL coordinators, and have more experience coaching for teams with winning records, the “most statistically significant difference between [those who were hired and those who were not hired] by far was race.”[58] According to the study 83.3% of finalists who were hired as NFL head coaches during the 2021-2022 hiring cycle were white, while only 37.5% of the runners-up were.[59] Moreover, 53.8% of white finalists ultimately ended up being hired, while just 16.7% of nonwhite finalists did. FiveThirtyEight determined this difference to be statistically significant."
 
Damn, I'm wasting all this and @Disanthrope doesn't even know.

I'm calling out a weak rule made by the white man in an effort to trick people into thinking they made a rule helping black people. The rule was also watered down so that any minority, including women of any race meet the standard. Letting them inflate their numbers without actually helping black people (which was the original issue that needed to be solved).

Am I...am I on code? Am I better now?
 
Bow to Royalty said:
Damn Demaurice Smith (former head of the NFLPA) and all his research must just be talking shit and grasping at straws too.

Link to the entire document

The Rooney Suggestion: How the “Rule” Has Failed to Defeat Institutional Barriers to Equitable Hiring Practices in the NFL and Recommendations for Meaningful Reform | Yale Law & Policy Review

yalelawandpolicy.org yalelawandpolicy.org

"Statistical evidence confirms that the Rooney Rule is not serving its intended purpose.[50] In the twenty years since the Rooney Rule was passed, only 11% of head coaching positions have been filled by Black candidates, and many of these candidates have been fired before receiving the same opportunity to prove their worth as their white peers.[51] Similar disparities exist at the offensive coordinator, quarterback coach, and general manager positions, despite the Rooney Rule’s expansion to apply to those roles as well. This suggests that systemic flaws and lack of oversight limit the Rooney Rule’s ability to drive real change.

In March 2022, University of Miami sociologist Alexis Piquero conducted a statistical analysis examining the efficacy of the Rooney Rule over the last eight years. Piquero tracked NFL head coaching interviews and outcomes and found that white candidates who interview for NFL head coaching positions are three times more likely to be hired than their non-white peers, even after controlling for age, number of opportunities, and previous coaching experience.[52] Piquero also found that Black interviewees are roughly four times less likely to be hired for head coaching positions than all other candidates, controlling for age, number of opportunities, playing experience, offensive or defensive coordinator experience, and prior experience serving as an NFL head coach.[53] Piquero’s findings are statistically significant, and they suggest that the Rooney Rule is not working."
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Man, I said to myself that I was done replying to you after my last reply, but I can't let this stand.

I have no problem supplementing or replacing the rule with something better. All I am saying is that it has helped some black coaches get hired, both directly and indirectly.

You're saying that it hasn't helped any black coaches get hired. Zero. These studies don't even speak to that, so they're irrelevant.

Even these scholars who you're quoting probably wouldn't say that zero black coaches have been hired over the 22 years since it was adopted.
 
Gray Matter said:
Man, I said to myself that I was done replying to you after my last reply, but I can't let this stand.

I have no problem supplementing or replacing the rule with something better. All I am saying is that it has helped some black coaches get hired, both directly and indirectly.

You're saying that it hasn't helped any black coaches get hired. Zero. These studies don't even speak to that, so they're irrelevant.

Even these scholars who you're quoting probably wouldn't say that zero black coaches have been hired over the 22 years since it was adopted.
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Even if it has helped some black coaches get hired, it's still been a failure. The problem was there weren't nearly enough black coaches in the league/being hired. 22 years later there still aren't nearly enough black coaches in the league/being hired.

Are we just disagreeing on whether it's been a failure or a complete failure? If so, I'm cool with conceding that's it's just been a failure.

Failure meaning it hasn't fixed (or really even come anywhere close to fixing) the issue it was created to fix.
 
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