OPINION Is Marvel's Black Panther movie really a "special moment" for Black America??

The Lonious Monk said:
I still don't understand why people can't separate Killmonger's views having merit from Killmonger's actions being villainous. Killmonger was 100% right that Wakanda was wrong to shut itself away while it knew it had access to things that could help the hurting people around the world. Killmonger was 100% a villain too because despite his reasonable views, his goal was to sew chaos through the world, destablize it, and then assume the role of global dictator. That's like comic book villain goals 101.
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Because the art of looking at a situation with nuance is becoming a lost art. It's either you're 100% right or 100% wrong which leaves no room for actual discussion. And yeah people who don't see the flaws in his plan or over romanticize it on some "He was looking out for his people" shit when he openly brags about killing his own people in the movie just missed the whole point
 
Soul_Rattler said:
No it's not and I'm not trying to get into a deep discussion about plot details when there's a thread for that.

My point is, it's easy to dismiss someone as simplistic, overemotional, stupid, etc when you don't agree with their motivations or methods. But it's rarely that easy. Take this Trump administration for example. It's easy to say they're just a bunch of impulsive morons but realistically, it's an administration lacking central direction. Everyone has their own ideas but no common and consistent vision.

But if you choose to not infer when watching a movie and take everything on face value, that's your choice. Just know that I could similarly dismiss your criticism as "oh you're only saying that about Killmonger cause you love white women and you're a coon".

At that point, it's a mud slinging contest.
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It's no dismissive when the shit is the truth though...and truthfully Killmonger's plan was more based in the emotion of revenge than actually wanting better for his people. He wasn't even hiding that in his words or his actions. He didn't want better for Wakanda...he wanted revenge for feeling like he was abandoned and left in the world alone. That's an emotionally based reason for his actions and part of the reason his plan failed was he showed no true vision beyond wanting to fuck Wakanda up because his "plan' of using their weapons to free people and have them all under the rule of Wakanda just wouldn't have worked in the long term.
 
BlackRain said:
Because the art of looking at a situation with nuance is becoming a lost art. It's either you're 100% right or 100% wrong which leaves no room for actual discussion. And yeah people who don't see the flaws in his plan or over romanticize it on some "He was looking out for his people" shit when he openly brags about killing his own people in the movie just missed the whole point
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You say the bold. But you seem to not be taking your own advice.
 
The whole point of the movie actually parallels my argument for this thread ironically...

Basically, you can't control angry Niggaz.

You keep your foot on niggaz necks eventually a killmonger will emerge...

In order to keep Niggaz docile and controllable you gotta throw them some bones to keep them from blowing up...

As a plot device, t'challa had to make some compromises and some atone for some of the shit his father did in the past... He opened up the borders to ease tensions and not make the world feel so defensive... Wakanda feels they're above the rest of the world and that creates a lot of resent. Especially when they make mistakes like with killmonger and his pops.

In real life... This movie was a bone. Give Niggaz shit like this to keep them happy and supportive.
 
BlackRain said:
It's no dismissive when the shit is the truth though...and truthfully Killmonger's plan was more based in the emotion of revenge than actually wanting better for his people. He wasn't even hiding that in his words or his actions. He didn't want better for Wakanda...he wanted revenge for feeling like he was abandoned and left in the world alone. That's an emotionally based reason for his actions and part of the reason his plan failed was he showed no true vision beyond wanting to fuck Wakanda up because his "plan' of using their weapons to free people and have them all under the rule of Wakanda just wouldn't have worked in the long term.
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Don't you see how you're writing a different movie in your head than the movie you actually saw?

Yes, his position was informed by his experience, as all of ours are. But nowhere in the movie is it even implied that he was a product of pure rage, emotion, or revenge. The vast majority of moviegoers were able to understand that his motivations were not entirely selfish but you keep suggesting that his aspirations of arming the oppressed were inconsequential when the film's conclusion itself proves you wrong.

T'Challa recognized the truth in Killmonger's position and altered his foreign policy to account for it.

Btw 2 things:

1. You said he didn't want what's best for Wakanda when he specifically said the sun will never set on the Wakandan empire.
2. His plan didn' t fail because it never got a chance to fail. There was an insurrection against him and they stopped him before he was even able to get the weapons past the border.
 
Soul_Rattler said:
Don't you see how you're writing a different movie in your head than the movie you actually saw?

Yes, his position was informed by his experience, as all of ours are. But nowhere in the movie is it even implied that he was a product of pure rage, emotion, or revenge. The vast majority of moviegoers were able to understand that his motivations were not entirely selfish but you keep suggesting that his aspirations of arming the oppressed were inconsequential when the film's conclusion itself proves you wrong.

T'Challa recognized the truth in Killmonger's position and altered his foreign policy to account for it.

Btw 2 things:

1. You said he didn't want what's best for Wakanda when he specifically said the sun will never set on the Wakandan empire.
2. His plan didn' t fail because it never got a chance to fail. There was an insurrection against him and they stopped him before he was even able to get the weapons past the border.
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Saying the sun will never set on Wakandan Empire is the whitest thing he said. He was going to be an Imperialist.
 
King Du said:
The whole point of the movie actually parallels my argument for this thread ironically...
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HellCzar said:
Imperialism was not what was best for Wakanda. Isolationism was best for Wakanda.
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No it wasn't. I think a few people missed it, but someone pointed out that the outside world was catching up technologically. Sooner or later Wakanda would have been discovered and being that they had no genuine diplomatic connections, they would have had a harder time dealing with the outside world when it became unavoidable.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
No it wasn't. I think a few people missed it, but someone pointed out that the outside world was catching up technologically. Sooner or later Wakanda would have been discovered and being that they had no genuine diplomatic connections, they would have had a harder time dealing with the outside world when it became unavoidable.
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But they had time to decide that. Cant rush it
 
5th Letter said:
You say the bold. But you seem to not be taking your own advice.
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I am because I can see the "why" aspect of how peopl3 connect with Killmonger and would even agree with him on some things and I even agree he wasn't wrong for feeling how he felt...but he also had major holes in his plan and execution that are easy to point out as well.
 
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