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Rolling Stone Remade Their 500 Greatest Albums List, The Top Hip Hop Album Was...

The Lonious Monk said:
Bruh, here is the tracklist for one of those albums you listed.



Only three songs on there were crossovers. The reason so many of the songs they play now have R&B singers and rappers on them at the same times is because crossovers are more common. That doesn't mean they've become a distinct genre of music.
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Inori said:
They play some hip hop

...........

They play some R&B


lol
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So would you agree that Hot 97 plays Hip Hop and R&B?
 
Inori said:
I would.. but I wouldn't agree that Hip Hop and R&B are a distinct genre on their own
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Not to go off on a tangent but...

In the 80s there was a distinct difference between Hip Hop and R&B.

Actually, when they first started making rap records, they played instruments so Rap records were composed like R&B songs

Rappers Delight - Sugarhill Gang
The Breaks - Kurtis Blow
Freedom - Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5
Double Dutch Bus - Frankie Smith
It's Magic - Fearless Four
New Rap Language Spoonie G feat The Treacherous Three

Musically, if you listened to the instrumental version of those songs, they sounded like R&B songs. The only difference was the rapping instead of singing. R&B radio stations would play the early Rap records because the songs were composed like R&B and they thought it was just a fad.

First The Message and then Sucker MCs were the first Rap songs that didn't sound like R&B. I mean, when Sucker MCs comes on you know it's not a R&B record. Then Rap producers started using drum machines, synthesizers and scratching became popular. By 1985/86 Rap music (not necessarily Hip Hop, but Rap music) had a distinct sound. The drums were more prominent, the scratching and the vocals sounded unlike anything that had come out prior. Then Rap producers started sampling. Some of the first records that contained samples were;

Ego Trippin - Ultrmagnetic MCs
Eric B Is President - Eric B & Rakim
South Bronx - Boogie Down Production
Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz - Biz Markie
Peter Piper - Run DMC

When those songs came out there was absolutely no way that you could mistake them for R&B records. Rap music had officially become it's own genre of music.


But since the early 90s (I guess it started with Friends by Jody Watley, but you could take it back to P.I.M.P by Rick James or I Feel For You by Chaka Khan) R&B singers started singing over beats that were undeniably Hip Hop beats, like when Mary J Blige rapped over the Top Billin beat for Real Love, or when Jodeci sang over the You're A Customer beat by EPMD (both songs were produced by Puff Daddy).

By the mid-90s Every R&B remix had a rap feature.

By the late 90s/early 00s the instrumental tracks of Hip Hop and R&B became blurred again. At first in the early 80s, Rap producers were biting R&B songs, but in the mid to late 90s R&B producers started biting Hip Hop songs.

Here's 5 songs from the mid 90s. @Inori are these songs Hip Hop or R&B? Would you say the instrumental track is Hip Hop or R&B? How about the lyrics?












Lastly, if you were visiting another city and the radio station played these 5 songs in a row, how would you describe the radio station?
 
5 Grand said:
Not to go off on a tangent but...

In the 80s there was a distinct difference between Hip Hop and R&B.

Actually, when they first started making rap records, they played instruments so Rap records were composed like R&B songs

Rappers Delight - Sugarhill Gang
The Breaks - Kurtis Blow
Freedom - Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5
Double Dutch Bus - Frankie Smith
It's Magic - Fearless Four
New Rap Language Spoonie G feat The Treacherous Three

Musically, if you listened to the instrumental version of those songs, they sounded like R&B songs. The only difference was the rapping instead of singing. R&B radio stations would play the early Rap records because the songs were composed like R&B and they thought it was just a fad.

First The Message and then Sucker MCs were the first Rap songs that didn't sound like R&B. I mean, when Sucker MCs comes on you know it's not a R&B record. Then Rap producers started using drum machines, synthesizers and scratching became popular. By 1985/86 Rap music (not necessarily Hip Hop, but Rap music) had a distinct sound. The drums were more prominent, the scratching and the vocals sounded unlike anything that had come out prior. Then Rap producers started sampling. Some of the first records that contained samples were;

Ego Trippin - Ultrmagnetic MCs
Eric B Is President - Eric B & Rakim
South Bronx - Boogie Down Production
Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz - Biz Markie
Peter Piper - Run DMC

When those songs came out there was absolutely no way that you could mistake them for R&B records. Rap music had officially become it's own genre of music.


But since the early 90s (I guess it started with Friends by Jody Watley, but you could take it back to P.I.M.P by Rick James or I Feel For You by Chaka Khan) R&B singers started singing over beats that were undeniably Hip Hop beats, like when Mary J Blige rapped over the Top Billin beat for Real Love, or when Jodeci sang over the You're A Customer beat by EPMD (both songs were produced by Puff Daddy).

By the mid-90s Every R&B remix had a rap feature.

By the late 90s/early 00s the instrumental tracks of Hip Hop and R&B became blurred again. At first in the early 80s, Rap producers were biting R&B songs, but in the mid to late 90s R&B producers started biting Hip Hop songs.

Here's 5 songs from the mid 90s. @Inori are these songs Hip Hop or R&B? Would you say the instrumental track is Hip Hop or R&B? How about the lyrics?












Lastly, if you were visiting another city and the radio station played these 5 songs in a row, how would you describe the radio station?
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Come on my dude. A rap song with a singer on the hook is still just a rap song. A 3 and a half minute R&B song with a 30 second rap verse is still just an R&B song. Yes, there is more crossover between the two genres than most, but it's not to the degree where there is a new genre. Especially when you consider that no one is dropping albums where all of the songs fit that category. Every song on AEOM wasn't like I Ain't Mad At Cha. You keep asking this question about 5 or 10 songs in a row. I posted an example of an album made from a Hot 97 playlist. It had like 15 songs on it and only 3 were crossovers. Nowadays that number might be 6 out of 15, but that still means that the majority of the songs played on the station is what you're claiming them to be.
 
The Lonious Monk said:
Come on my dude. A rap song with a singer on the hook is still just a rap song. A 3 and a half minute R&B song with a 30 second rap verse is still just an R&B song. Yes, there is more crossover between the two genres than most, but it's not to the degree where there is a new genre. Especially when you consider that no one is dropping albums where all of the songs fit that category. Every song on AEOM wasn't like I Ain't Mad At Cha. You keep asking this question about 5 or 10 songs in a row. I posted an example of an album made from a Hot 97 playlist. It had like 15 songs on it and only 3 were crossovers. Nowadays that number might be 6 out of 15, but that still means that the majority of the songs played on the station is what you're claiming them to be.
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It's not just the singing or the rapping.

I'm saying Hip Hop instrumental tracks from the late 80s didn't sound anything like R&B instrumental tracks from the 80s.

Nowadays that line doesn't exist. If a song comes on you can't tell if it's "Hip Hop" or "R&B" until the vocals come on. I could probably list 100 songs that came out over the past 5 years by rappers featuring singers or singers featuring rappers.

From 1986-1991 you'd be hard pressed to name 10 songs with a rapper featuring a singer or a singer featuring a rapper (Bell Bis Devoe notwithstanding).

In fact, name 10 songs from 1986-1991 with a singer featuring a rapper or a rapper featuring a singer.

I bet I could name 10X as many songs from the past 5 years
 
5 Grand said:
It's not just the singing or the rapping.

I'm saying Hip Hop instrumental tracks from the late 80s didn't sound anything like R&B instrumental tracks from the 80s.

Nowadays that line doesn't exist. If a song comes on you can't tell if it's "Hip Hop" or "R&B" until the vocals come on. I could probably list 100 songs that came out over the past 5 years by rappers featuring singers or singers featuring rappers.

From 1986-1991 you'd be hard pressed to name 10 songs with a rapper featuring a singer or a singer featuring a rapper (Bell Bis Devoe notwithstanding).

In fact, name 10 songs from 1986-1991 with a singer featuring a rapper or a rapper featuring a singer.

I bet I could name 10X as many songs from the past 5 years
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You can name 100 songs crossover songs that came out last year. Cool. There have probably been 1000 R&B songs and 1000 Hip Hop songs on the charts since that time that weren't crossovers.

All you're arguing is that crossover songs became more popular as Hip Hop became a more prominent genre. Ok, that's true. That doesn't make Hip Hop and R&B as standalone genre.
 
i hear what @5 Grand is saying but that L hill album didnt have as much beats and rhymes as i expected before it came out

always considered it a rnb album
 
Rolling Stone stay fuckin up.

That Marvin Gaye album is redundant as hell and its not a hip hop album if less than half us your songs have rappin in it.
 
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