Is Everything Fair?

[5 Grand]

Example #1

A kid grows up poor and in the ghetto vs another kid that grows up middle-class in the suburbs

The poor kid's parents didn't go to college and had him at a young age (mom was 16 when she had him). Neither parent finished high school and neither parent can get a good paying job. Ultimately the father ends up strung out on drugs and/or in prison. As a result the mother (who has two more kids by now) spends the rest of her life on public assistance (SSI, Section 8, Food Stamps). As a result the kids grow up at a disadvantage.


The rich kid's mother waited until she graduated college to have kids. The parents both had college degrees, but the marriage doesn't work out. But once the kid starts school, with the help of family and friends the mother can get a good paying job ($50k per year) and buy a house in the suburbs. The kid grows up in a safe neighborhood and goes on to college after high school.



Example #2


Somebody decides to rob a bank.

He walks into the bank and pulls out a gun and says, "everybody on the floor!". He points the gun at the bank teller and tells her to give him the money. He shoots the teller, grabs the cash and gets away. After the robbery the police track him down, charge him with bank robbery and murder. He ends up serving life in prison.




Is everything fair?



Is there any part of either scenario where you can say, "yeah but it's not fair"?

 

[konceptjones]

It all boils down to decisions you make. There are people in each scenario makes different life decisions and have a better or worse outcome. How it turns out is purely dependent on you.

You choose to have a baby at 16.
You choose not to finish school.
You choose to put a needle in your arm or a pipe to your lips.
You choose what happens to you down the line.

Make better choices and have a better life.

 

[mryounggun]

Nothing is fair. Life in general isn't fair. Its unfair for kid#1 to have to deal with such poverty and bullshit, because he did nothing to deserve it. It's unfair for kid #2 to to have such an affluent life, because he did nothing to deserve it.

But that's life.

What the fuck.

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

It all boils down to decisions you make. There are people in each scenario makes different life decisions and have a better or worse outcome. How it turns out is purely dependent on you.

You choose to have a baby at 16.
You choose not to finish school.
You choose to put a needle in your arm or a pipe to your lips.
You choose what happens to you down the line.

Make better choices and have a better life.

But you don't choose to be born to a parent that made 'bad decisions'

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

It shouldn't even be a debate that the socio-economic status of your parents is a huge indicator (it's the biggest) of a child's future success.

So no, everything isn't fair.

Now if you argue that everything not bein' fair, is itself fair. That's different

 

[konceptjones]

But you don't choose to be born to a parent that made 'bad decisions'

but you chose to follow their examples.

 

[CeLLar-DooR]

but you chose to follow their examples.

At some point down the line we gotta say that something other than choice is causin' the trend to continue, or at least, something is causin' them to make the same choices

 

[konceptjones]

At some point down the line we gotta say that something other than choice is causin' the trend to continue, or at least, something is causin' them to make the same choices

Yes, their own brains.

Look, I get there are environmental factors that could possibly steer a person down the wrong path. However, at the end of the day you're 100% responsible for the choices you make. You choose to drink or do drugs like your parents. You choose to drop out of school. You choose to slang on the block. You choose to fuck raw. And these choices can dictate the quality life you have down the line.

 

[25centsandwich]

Im still trying to figure out what example 1 has to do with example 2. It feels like the op is trying the tie both together.

I know alot of people in situations similar to example 1. I dont know anybody that robbed a bank and killed the bank teller AFTER they got the money.

 

[mryounggun]

Im still trying to figure out what example 1 has to do with example 2. It feels like the op is trying the tie both together.

I know alot of people in situations similar to example 1. I dont know anybody that robbed a bank and killed the bank teller AFTER they got the money.

They aren't related.

 

[B_A]

Yes, their own brains.

Look, I get there are environmental factors that could possibly steer a person down the wrong path. However, at the end of the day you're 100% responsible for the choices you make. You choose to drink or do drugs like your parents. You choose to drop out of school. You choose to slang on the block. You choose to fuck raw. And these choices can dictate the quality life you have down the line.

I agree to some extent, but if you were raised with shit tools to navigate life, by default you make less productive decisions. And a lot of times people dont realize they lack adequate tools to make better choices until they've already made a range of bad decisions, and that's implying any of them wake up at all to realize, holy fuck, I lack adaptability/life skills.

 

[AZTG]

The majority of decisions people make arent conscious. People dont sit and debate the pros of cons of the decisions they make. Thats not how the human decisions making process works.

The idea that all your decisions are your own decisions has been proven wrong decades ago.

Basically, depending on a million factors like where you were born, when you were born, the neighborhood you grew up in, your parents, siblings, friends, school you went to, people you looked up too, the millions of choices you could have made gets dwindled down too just a couple without any personal input from you.

This doesnt mean people shouldnt be held accountable for their decisions. It means that a persons life decisions shouldnt be looked at as black and white, on some, he decided to do this so he deserved everything he got. There is a huge gray area that allows others to understand the reason behind a persons decision. Once you look at the all the different uncontrollable factors that go into a decision, you realize a mfer only had 5-6 realistic decisions, and 5 out of 6 of them were the wrong decision.

 

[AZTG]

Follow up to my last post, nah the shit isnt fair.

At 20, i never had the decision to start a business cause I didnt have the capital or any examples of successful business people around me to learn from. The decision to not start a business was made for me without any input from me. And now at 31, im doing ok but still working a 9 to 5.

But the son of a millionaire at 20, due the circumstances that he had no control over, had an actual decision to start a business, cause he had the capital and the knowledge base. That mfer started a business and at 31 is a multi millionaire in his own right.

So shit is not fair. The playing fields were never even.

 

[#1hiphopjunki3]

Yes, their own brains.

Look, I get there are environmental factors that could possibly steer a person down the wrong path. However, at the end of the day you're 100% responsible for the choices you make. You choose to drink or do drugs like your parents. You choose to drop out of school. You choose to slang on the block. You choose to fuck raw. And these choices can dictate the quality life you have down the line.

I agree with this 100%

I know from experience that what is posted above is true. Out of all my grandma's (may she rest in peace), grandsons I'm the only one that has never been in prison. Even with my situation being worse than all of them as far as being in a single parent household, having a parent who made less and worked more hours I still turned out fine. I stayed out of trouble, graduated high school, retired from one job and doing another one because I'm bored, no debt or dependents, a decent amount of money socked away, and doing pretty good for myself.

I'm not knocking any of my cousins because I love them and some of them became better men after having to set down for awhile but you as a person make your own choices in life. Of course it's harder for some people due to obstacles (some times self inflicted, sometimes not) that is put in their way but either you adapt and overcome or succumb to the bullshit.

 

[#1hiphopjunki3]

I agree to some extent, but if you were raised with shit tools to navigate life, by default you make less productive decisions. And a lot of times people dont realize they lack adequate tools to make better choices until they've already made a range of bad decisions, and that's implying any of them wake up at all to realize, holy fuck, I lack adaptability/life skills.

I also agree with this sentiment.

It sucks that some people from birth have built in disadvantages that they had no hand in making but unfortunately that is life for alot of folks. It shouldn't be this way but it is.

But there are a ton of examples of people overcoming those disadvantages to become successful human beings to learn from. If anything most people who are self made end up being more stable and important pillars in our communities. They can be inspiration to others who started off similar and if they are actually good people they can and most likely will help others

 

[konceptjones]

Follow up to my last post, nah the shit isnt fair.

At 20, i never had the decision to start a business cause I didnt have the capital or any examples of successful business people around me to learn from. The decision to not start a business was made for me without any input from me. And now at 31, im doing ok but still working a 9 to 5.

But the son of a millionaire at 20, due the circumstances that he had no control over, had an actual decision to start a business, cause he had the capital and the knowledge base. That mfer started a business and at 31 is a multi millionaire in his own right.

So shit is not fair. The playing fields were never even.

Fam... If you're 31 now, then you were 20 in 09, a time when you had a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. This is gonna sound harsh, but it's reality: You didn't start a business because you just didn't. You had the information readily available to you, you simply didn't utilize it. You don't need a ton of capital to get a business going, which is why so many start out from nothing. I have an old friend right now that just started a business making hot sauce, of all things. No captial outside of whatever they have left over from their paychecks, which ain't much. She's making it in her kitchen with her husband's help, bottling it up, applying labels, and shipping it out from there or running it around town. One of my crew from college owns a fairly popular barber shop in metro Detroit; he got his start simply cutting hair in the dorms with $20 clippers he copped from Perry Drugs. Broad I went to high school with and dated briefly as adults started her beauty salon out of her basement, saving up to buy one chair at a time. One of my peoples (RIP Tone) was selling rib dinners on the off ramp of freeways around Detroit.

All it takes it the want to do it and you will. At 20, you just didn't want to do something like that. That's not a knock at you, it's common; you're 20 years old and ain't thinking about that kinda shit. But we're not gonna sit here and act like there were no opportunities open to you because there were plenty.

 

[AZTG]

Fam... If you're 31 now, then you were 20 in 09, a time when you had a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips. This is gonna sound harsh, but it's reality: You didn't start a business because you just didn't. You had the information readily available to you, you simply didn't utilize it. You don't need a ton of capital to get a business going, which is why so many start out from nothing. I have an old friend right now that just started a business making hot sauce, of all things. No captial outside of whatever they have left over from their paychecks, which ain't much. She's making it in her kitchen with her husband's help, bottling it up, applying labels, and shipping it out from there or running it around town. One of my crew from college owns a fairly popular barber shop in metro Detroit; he got his start simply cutting hair in the dorms with $20 clippers he copped from Perry Drugs. Broad I went to high school with and dated briefly as adults started her beauty salon out of her basement, saving up to buy one chair at a time. One of my peoples (RIP Tone) was selling rib dinners on the off ramp of freeways around Detroit.

All it takes it the want to do it and you will. At 20, you just didn't want to do something like that. That's not a knock at you, it's common; you're 20 years old and ain't thinking about that kinda shit. But we're not gonna sit here and act like there were no opportunities open to you because there were plenty.

Thats that stupid shit. Clearly in giving an example of how a mfer at 20 is gonna open a multi million dollar business just from his advantages from birth to me buying clippers and cutting hair. Dumb shit.

Even in a fake example showing clearly that shit aint fair, yall decide to ignore how the human decision making process is proven to work.

What im saying is basic sociology that can be found with the crack of any sociology book/study.

 

[konceptjones]

Thats that stupid shit. Clearly in giving an example of how a mfer at 20 is gonna open a multi million dollar business just from his advantages from birth to me buying clippers and cutting hair. Dumb shit.

Even in a fake example showing clearly that shit aint fair, yall decide to ignore how the human decision making process is proven to work.

What im saying is basic sociology that can be found with the crack of any sociology book/study.

fam, do you understand that there were an assload of cats that started multi-million dollar businesses during the .com era from literally nothing?

In Detroit there was a story on the Channel 50 news about a kid that started a web design business when he was like 12-14 years old. This was around 95-96-ish. Kid had developed a rep and had a long list of clients. His momma always wanted a Jaguar, and he bought her one outright in cash before he was even legal to drive. He bought her a house, no mortgage. He was making money hand over fist and started out on a raggedy ass 2nd hand PC. I can remember it because my ex and I were sitting there watching the story and that weekend we went out and bought a book on HTML to try our hand at it.

What's stupid shit is making excuses for your choices. You made the conscious decision to do what you did and you wound up where you're at now. End of story. You had opportunities, you just chose not to do it. I did similar shit except I at least started my shit; I just got bored and moved on to something else.

 

[loud-ninja]

Simply put, life is a mixture of not being fair , and humans based decisions. The kid in scenario was given a terrible hand. Can't pick your family. That is unfair. But as the kid matures and goes through different experiences, at a certain point, they will have to base their life on the choices they make. There are young people that have terrible upbringings but choose to not stay down and work to get them out the hole their parents started them in. There are people that are raised around so much toxic negativity that they think it is the norm and perpetuate it. There are people that have all the resources in the world and still end up being a screw up. So there is no blanket statement for this. But scenario 2 is based off choice. Scenario 1 is based off choice for the parents and life being unfair for the kid up to a certain age.

 

[AZTG]

fam, do you understand that there were an assload of cats that started multi-million dollar businesses during the .com era from literally nothing?

In Detroit there was a story on the Channel 50 news about a kid that started a web design business when he was like 12-14 years old. This was around 95-96-ish. Kid had developed a rep and had a long list of clients. His momma always wanted a Jaguar, and he bought her one outright in cash before he was even legal to drive. He bought her a house, no mortgage. He was making money hand over fist and started out on a raggedy ass 2nd hand PC. I can remember it because my ex and I were sitting there watching the story and that weekend we went out and bought a book on HTML to try our hand at it.

What's stupid shit is making excuses for your choices. You made the conscious decision to do what you did and you wound up where you're at now. End of story. You had opportunities, you just chose not to do it. I did similar shit except I at least started my shit; I just got bored and moved on to something else.

My choices are good man. None of this about me.

The difference between me and you is I can remove myself from the equation and realize I was an exception to the rule.

You are literally debating proven and accepted sociological truths. You're also debating against scientific facts of how the human decision making process works.

Your responses prove you know nothing about this topic other than saying I made good decisions, they should do.

At this point, we gon have to agree to disagree cause I cant spend more time debating sociology with someone who clearly has no info about it.