The 2020 Presidential Election Thread

Peace_79

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And i dont have a particular candidate im pulling for yet. Bernie and his supporters are increasingly ridiculous. Biden has a shitty legislative record but i thought he was a solid vp. I like Warren personally but her policies are unclear. Klobuchar would probably be the best at getting things done and progressing the country but she doesnt have charisma. Bottom line is, whoever is the nominee needs full support.
For the most part, I won’t address the first part of your message because we fundamentally disagree far too much to have a substantive conversation.


I’ll tell you that I’m not saying Obama did not do a lot of good - he did. He’s the best President of my lifetime and he was well intentioned. But he was a Centrist. It’s just a fact.

That means that YES - he overlooked corruption. We know that everything in Washington DC is not above board. You don’t think Obama ignored, accepted, aided, abetted, and in some cases used people or schemes that had mal intent or corrupt influence - even if he thought it was for the “greater good”. There is no way you are truly that naive.

There is a story out that he put Medicare and Medicaid on the chopping block for Mitch Mcconell to make a deal ... the only reason it didn’t happen is because the Republicans were greedy and wanted MORE. I believe he did it becuse he thought he HAD to in order to succeed.

He believed you had to work with the system the way it currently was and that it could not be changed.

I disagree.

I believe that the system has to be changed. Some of the evidence of this is the vile person that was just elected President; and the economic and systemic frustrations that helped elect him.


Obama believed that Republicans are redeemable Politicians - Hopefully you an at least concede he was wrong about that.

I sincerely hope your leniency toward Centrism does not extend to you also defending current day Republicans.

And if you believe he went far enough on climate change you are just wrong. Part of that is due to the system he chose to embrace - I’ll grant you that. But it doesn’t change the facts on the ground.

Again I invite you to examine the detail of the Climate crisis and the extent of the impending destruction it will bring to bear on society - before you hail Obama’s accomplishments in that area as ‘substantial’.



That being said, I actually generally agree with everything you said in the quote above. It reflects reasonable, fair assessments of the candidates in the field. And the obligation that every human has to vote for anyone and anything that opposes that orange monster currently in the White House.

Of course where we seem to disagree is on


- The extent to which the status quo in society has been ravaged by income inequality

- Corporate Tax Policy

- The fact that corruption actually exists

- To what extent Bernie is a favorable candidate

- The relative merits of Moderate Centrism in the Democratic Party



And we can leave those topics at a stalemate, becuse I don’t see either of us moving from our positions.
 
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25centsandwich

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Bruh .... you can post all the salty Kobe Bryant gifs on the internet.

But.. . You just referred to someone calling Biden Corrupt as “slander”. My Lord. You have absolutely no earthly idea what you are talking about...

I DARE you to spend 15 minitues researching ”Biden and corruption”. See what you find.

If you actually look - you will Find
Not opinions. Not Punditry. Not biased narratives.

But DOCUMENTED FACTS with receipts.
Do you care about facts??? Or Not.

Bernie shouldn’t have apologized because everything pointed out in the piece was a truthful and substantiated.

He is way too soft on Biden because he is a nice guy, despite the media painting him out to be evil and malicious. I think he made a mistake in apologizing for one of his surrogates pointing out Biden’s terrible record of political favors that hurt the American people and help corporations.

I am still waiting for you to point out the CORPORATIONS who contributed to Bernie Sanders campaign AND the supposed political favors he reciprocated to said Corporations.

I’ll keep waiting ...


But for you to claim that “it doesn’t matter” that Presidential Candidates are accepting $ millions in corporate bribes and selling out the interest of the American people for them is insane.


In fact you are less upset about Politicians bypassing the American people and Democracy for Status and corporate money; than you are about Bernie Sanders calling it out!

Think about that.

Fam - these politicians don’t even matter to our every day lives. ALL THAT MATTERS is the policy.

You are more concerned about Joe Biden’s feelings than Joe Biden voting to take away financial protections of tens of millions of Americans struggling.


You are more concerned about Joe Biden’s feelings than Joe Biden voting to take away hundreds of millions of vulnerable Americans’ Healthcrae.


You are more concerned about Joe Biden’s feelings than Joe Biden voting to let 4500 Americans, and 300,000 innocent civilians over seas die; while 20,000+ Americans were saddled with disabilities, and $Trillions of dollars of tax payer money was wasted on a War we were lied into starting.


It would be one thing if it was just incompetence on the part of Biden. It would be unacceptable for a Presidential Candidate but forgivable.

But NO - that’s not the case.

THE GUY IS GETTING PAID TO SELL YOU OUT.

And you are concerned about his feelings???

With all dude respect, you may have drunk too much of the Kool Aid to see reason.
I dont need to waste 15 minutes on the internet to debunk those trash ass allegations. Bernie did it for me...

A politician votes for a bill that a large part of his states constincuency supports. Corporations give him money (which is legal and something he really doesnt need) for a position he was going to take anyway. Thats corruption? Lol cmon bruh. Nobodys supporters take that position....





Oh wait... i can think of one political figure that peddles that nonsense.





Thankfully bernie put the kibosh on that bullshit. Yall should follow.
 

Peace_79

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I dont need to waste 15 minutes on the internet to debunk those trash ass allegations. Bernie did it for me...

A politician votes for a bill that a large part of his states constincuency supports. Corporations give him money (which is legal and something he really doesnt need) for a position he was going to take anyway. Thats corruption? Lol cmon bruh. Nobodys supporters take that position....

Oh wait... i can think of one political figure that peddles that nonsense.

Thankfully bernie put the kibosh on that bullshit. Yall should follow.
Jesus

I don’t know if this is full blown naive thinking on your part or willful ignorance.

I will ask you this though?

Because, apparently, the majority of the country overwhelming supported the acceleration of the debt crisis and the shredding of the key financial protections afforded to tens of millions of people struggling with it.

What exactly did we gain from that strongly held desire, you presume we had?



And I guess Senator Biden was just working on behalf of his constituents when he aggressively attempted to severely cut Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid right?

What exactly did Delaware constituents (of whom millions depend on those services to stay alive and financially survive) get out of the good Senator trying to destroy their livelihood?

Just Curious.


If before he goes up to the plate ... a batter secretly gives the umpire $100,000 and then receives what appears to be a slow pitch down the middle of the plate that the batter hits out of the park.

YOU, the entire media, and everyone else watching would scream at the top of their lungs that he was CLEARLY CHEATING.

IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE


But Joe Biden can literally receive millions from corporate special interests, then demonstrate several examples of drastic legislative measures to significantly improve their bottom line and go directly against the best interests of the American people.

And you see that and simply assume -

“Hey that’s how government should work!”

You got it fam.
 

25centsandwich

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Jesus

I don’t know if this is full blown naive thinking on your part or willful ignorance.

I will ask you this though?

Because, apparently, the majority of the country overwhelming supported the acceleration of the debt crisis and the shredding of the key financial protections afforded to tens of millions of people struggling with it.

What exactly did we gain from that strongly held desire, you presume we had?



And I guess Senator Biden was just working on behalf of his constituents when he aggressively attempted to severely cut Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid right?

What exactly did Delaware constituents (of whom millions depend on those services to stay alive and financially survive) get out of the good Senator trying to destroy their livelihood?

Just Curious.


If before he goes up to the plate ... a batter secretly gives the umpire $100,000 and then receives what appears to be a slow pitch down the middle of the plate that the batter hits out of the park.

YOU, the entire media, and everyone else watching would scream at the top of their lungs that he was CLEARLY CHEATING.

IT WOULD BE OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE


But Joe Biden can literally receive millions from corporate special interests, then demonstrate several examples of drastic legislative measures to significantly improve their bottom line and go directly against the best interests of the American people.

And you see that and simply assume -

“Hey that’s how government should work!”

You got it fam.
So you accuse me of drinking the kool aid?

But it seems that you fell into this absurd conflation tactic.

Biden wanting to cut social security and medicare is a policy issue that has nothing to do with him being "corrupt". Fair issue to go after him even though it was sneaky how they initially did it (bernies latest attack is better)

This other credit card company nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt to link biden to trumps bullshit.

The last allegations are trash and the attempt to conflate the two are trash trump like tactics. Bernie knew it and deaded that shit. Again, his supporters should too.
 

25centsandwich

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Of course where we seem to disagree is on


- The extent to which the status quo in society has been ravaged by income inequality

- Corporate Tax Policy

- The fact that corruption actually exists

- To what extent Bernie is a favorable candidate

- The relative merits of Moderate Centrism in the Democratic Party



And we can leave those topics at a stalemate, becuse I don’t see either of us moving from our positions.
I did want to address this because i find this to be a much more substantive argument.

I dont tend to think we disagree that much at all on the particular issues or those are in fact issues. Where i think we disagree is to the degree and on the methods to combat them.

- never said income inequality wasnt an issue. In fact its a huge issue. The wedge is on how to combat it. Progressives seem to think that raising taxes on the rich, creating more govt jobs and raising the federal minimum wage is a cure all. I dont. Job retraining making for a more competitive workforce, further regulating predatory lending (starting with student loans), and working to lower costs of living expenses are much more effective than the former imo.

- we discussed corporate tax policy ad nauseum...bottom line i feel like what is being proposed in some circles is self defeating

- also discussed this. Never said corruption wasnt an issue....simply stated it was facetious to call every presidential candidate (besides bernie) corrupt. Corruption is a huge issue on the state and local levels and also on the other side. Its an issue in the democratic party but overblown. Corporate money is like 2-3% of a presidential candidates fundraising. 1.5 of that 2% is giving money to a candidate who agrees with the candidates issues anyway. And there is no guarantee that candidate is going to go the way of the donor (ironically biden is an example of this)

- really dont care if bernie is a favorable candidate. I like bernie. I disagree with some of his policies but if he wins, ill support him. Some of his supporters are trash though.

- not even sure why modern centrism is a debate. Its just a fact that at this point moderates are the dominant part of the electorial base. The real debate is how much moderates should embrace progressives ideals
 

DMorgan

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Trump is attracting a new crop of big donors, including many who have never given before

Ejike Okpa, a Nigerian American commercial real estate developer in Dallas who started a PAC called Africans for MAGA, gave his first major political donations to Trump’s reelection: $35,000 in 2017 and $10,000 in 2018. He has always preferred nontraditional candidates, he said — he gave $250 to Obama in 2008 — and he likes that Trump is a fighter and disrupter in Washington.

Okpa is now a bundler for Trump Victory and boasts a collection of selfies with the president’s family, a signed copy of Donald Trump Jr.’s book and an autographed thumbs-up photo with Trump.

“What he stands for, the way he has approached doing things for America, just kind of intrigues me,” Okpa said. “I vote, but when you match that with a financial contribution, it’s an additional show of support and commitment.”


 

IC_Refugee

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Reading that article was crazy. It's a lot of minorities donating to Trump and the GOP. Shit don't make sense.

Yet way too many black people still want to be too inclusive of everyone. Which makes even less sense.
Yea, negroes worldwide are just tapping out at this point. Sucks.
 

Peace_79

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So you accuse me of drinking the kool aid?

But it seems that you fell into this absurd conflation tactic.

Biden wanting to cut social security and medicare is a policy issue that has nothing to do with him being "corrupt". Fair issue to go after him even though it was sneaky how they initially did it (bernies latest attack is better)

This other credit card company nonsense is a thinly veiled attempt to link biden to trumps bullshit.

The last allegations are trash and the attempt to conflate the two are trash trump like tactics. Bernie knew it and deaded that shit. Again, his supporters should too.

YES. You are drinking the Kool Aid.

Was Trump President in 1998 or 2005?

Trump wasn’t even in Politics when Biden sold out the American People for “the Credit card stuff”.

Biden's entire career was bankrolled by the credit card industry decades ago. He was literally known as the “Senator from MBNA”.

This isn’t even disputed. It is common knowledge.


“In total, Biden received $1,126,375 from those in the securities and investment industry, $304,475 from finance and credit company workers, and $295,900 from commercial bank employees.

Biden’s ties to MBNA and banks span beyond political contributions from its employees. Home sales, family jobs, and free trips caused critics to dub him “the senator from MBNA.



The fact that you blamed it on Trump shows how desperate you are to NOT believe the truth stating you in the face.
 

Peace_79

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Boy these corporations sure seem to really like Biden.

Maybe he is just a nice guy. And maybe they are just really nice Corporations ...

So much so that they would give millions from their bottom line; not directed toward shareholders; but directed towards nice fellows who like to use the word “Malarkey” and seek to hold the most powerful office in the world and control the most powerful economy in the word; of which they happen to be incorporated under.

Maybe Bernie should just be more “nice” like Joe and corporations would donate more to him.

Oh well. Maybe next time



Here some examples in JUST this election cycle.

  • Securities & Investments - $972,385
  • Business Services -$679,626
  • Business - $388,379
  • Finance - $328,712
  • Commercial Banks - $160,373
 

Peace_79

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I did want to address this because i find this to be a much more substantive argument.

I dont tend to think we disagree that much at all on the particular issues or those are in fact issues. Where i think we disagree is to the degree and on the methods to combat them.

- never said income inequality wasnt an issue. In fact its a huge issue. The wedge is on how to combat it. Progressives seem to think that raising taxes on the rich, creating more govt jobs and raising the federal minimum wage is a cure all. I dont. Job retraining making for a more competitive workforce, further regulating predatory lending (starting with student loans), and working to lower costs of living expenses are much more effective than the former imo.

- we discussed corporate tax policy ad nauseum...bottom line i feel like what is being proposed in some circles is self defeating

- also discussed this. Never said corruption wasnt an issue....simply stated it was facetious to call every presidential candidate (besides bernie) corrupt. Corruption is a huge issue on the state and local levels and also on the other side. Its an issue in the democratic party but overblown. Corporate money is like 2-3% of a presidential candidates fundraising. 1.5 of that 2% is giving money to a candidate who agrees with the candidates issues anyway. And there is no guarantee that candidate is going to go the way of the donor (ironically biden is an example of this)

- really dont care if bernie is a favorable candidate. I like bernie. I disagree with some of his policies but if he wins, ill support him. Some of his supporters are trash though.

- not even sure why modern centrism is a debate. Its just a fact that at this point moderates are the dominant part of the electorial base. The real debate is how much moderates should embrace progressives ideals
I don’t think you understand what it means to be a Centrist.

“Moderate Democrats” would have chastised, ridiculed and blacklisted Martin Luther King Jr.

This is a fact.

 

25centsandwich

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YES. You are drinking the Kool Aid.

Was Trump President in 1998 or 2005?

Trump wasn’t even in Politics when Biden sold out the American People for “the Credit card stuff”.

Biden's entire career was bankrolled by the credit card industry decades ago. He was literally known as the “Senator from MBNA”.

This isn’t even disputed. It is common knowledge.


“In total, Biden received $1,126,375 from those in the securities and investment industry, $304,475 from finance and credit company workers, and $295,900 from commercial bank employees.

Biden’s ties to MBNA and banks span beyond political contributions from its employees. Home sales, family jobs, and free trips caused critics to dub him “the senator from MBNA.



The fact that you blamed it on Trump shows how desperate you are to NOT believe the truth stating you in the face.
Bruh are you kidding me LOL? Biden takes money from credit card and bank employees!? Wow man the fuckin horror lol

I guess next youre going to tell me those corrupt ass michigan politicians accept money from automobile workers...or that bernie takes donations from maple industry employees lol

You know what the fuck that bullshit mbna story was about. Hunter biden went to work for a credit card company out of an ivy league school (i would imagine there are other ivy league grads that work for banks in delaware too). It was some shitty veiled attempt to link what biden did then to this burisma crap trump is parroting.

Sanders knew that and told them to get the fuck outta here with that shit. At least he had the instincts and foresight to see what it was and toss it before the seat got too hot on what his supporters were tryin to do. You should too bruh.