Phuck it, let's do it: Kareem vs. Mike - ABW version

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

You know why. Cause most of you fuckin Millennials swear that the NBA started in 1991. And since we never got a real definitive answer back on the IC, let's see if we'll get clarity here.

(I doubt it, tho.)

 

[Playmaker88]

None of us saw kareem play you can't just throw stats up and say who is the best.. it doesnt work like that even thought thats how it is now..

 

[5 Grand]

The only category that MJ wins is Steals. Otherwise Kareem beats MJ in all aspects of the game.

And I remember when Kareem used to play. I was young but I can remember his sky hook. Growing up in Massachusetts the Celtics/Lakers rivalry was a big deal. We used to watch the finals every year and there was a few years that it was either the Celtics or the Lakers that won the championship.

As dope as MJ was, the clincher for me is Field Goal% and points. If there's 5 seconds left on the clock and you're down by one, would you pass to somebody that has a 55.9% field goal percentage, or would you pass to somebody who has a 49.7% field goal percentage?

Also, for the sake of argument, let's say a steal=blocked shot.

Kareem has 3X as many blocked shots as MJ.

MJ has 2x as many steals as Kareem.

If a steal= a blocked shot then Kareem is better.

 

[O.G.]

None of us saw kareem play you can't just throw stats up and say who is the best.. it doesnt work like that even thought thats how it is now..

I saw him play.
MICHAEL JEFFREY JORDAN IS THE GOAT!

 

[5 Grand]

I saw him play.
MICHAEL JEFFREY JORDAN IS THE GOAT!

@THE_REAL_O.G. Why do you think MJ is better than Kareem?

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Mike.

MJ didn't play for 2 seasons after the first 3 peat and 3 after the season. If we basing it off stats, MJ's numbers would've been better if not for the off years. And ofc everybody knows the Bulls would've also won those 2 chips they gifted to the Rockets.

 

[O.G.]

@THE_REAL_O.G. Why do you think MJ is better than Kareem?

First of all them stats are ass bcuz you are comparing a center who played 20 seasons vs a shooting guard that played 15. I will give a half ass explanation since i really don't give a damn about this debate.

Kareem's talent was his height. He was dominant at a time where 7 foot players were very rare. Not his fault but he rarely matched up with players that he didn't have a physical advantage over.

Jordan's talent was his talent (that makes no since but it kinda does). IMO no holes and his game. He was able to get buckets at will when the game was played with no floor spacing. He was the best offensive and defensive guard when he played. He came back almost every year with improvements to his game. Post up, fade away , mid range were all unfuckwitable. Could beat you off the dribble easily. Could finish at the rim with an array of off balanced shots. Could beat you with his right or left hand. As the 3 pointer became more popular he was knocking them down too. Great passer. High bball IQ. Dog on defense. Killer instinct. Kareem was known to take plays off.


This was a common narrative about your boy for years. lol



You cant's say Kareem was a better scorer if Jordan has a higher PPG and has more scoring titles . You can't say Kareem was better defensively if Jordan won DPOY while Kareem never won it. Also Jordan was first team defense 9 times to Kareem's 5. I won't even get into rings bcuz that is more of a team argument. BTW Kareem had Oscar, Magic & Worthy while MJ had Pippen & Rodman so let's not go there. Nor will i mention the early retirement that would of most likely ended up with more awards. Magic has more MVP's and FMVP's than Kareem when they were on the same team so you can prolly debate that Kareem wasn't even the best player on his own team. So how could he be the best player ever?

I won't disagree with anyone if they say Kareem had a better career if his high school and college years are included. ( BTW, how many 7 footers back then?) But I can't agree with ya if you say Kareem is the best player of all time.

I'm out.

 

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

C'mon O.G. You didn't say this back in the IC thread.

Kareem's dominance was his talent also. There are several 7-footers that didn't amount to shit in the league: outside of six of them (Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, and maybe Robinson and Ewing), most of them was obscure as fuck.

Just remember: Kareem had a 50-game winning streak in college, and only lost TWICE in his college career. And this was after the banned the slam dunk in 1967, after his freshmen year...CAUSE of him. So, what'd he do? SKYHOOK.

Don't get me wrong, Jordan is great, but we CAN compare the two, cause we're comparing the best PLAYER, regardless of position, and here's what I know are FACTS:

Magic has ZERO rings without Kareem
Big O has ZERO rings without Kareem
Jordan didn't even win the EAST in the toughest era of basketball - the 80s - .and he had Scottie AND Phil for some of that.
Kareem dominated, and won titles against some of the best teams of all-time: 80s Sixers, 80s Celtics, AND the Bad Boys.
The 70s had more than 20 All-stars through that decade, and Kareem won 5 MVPs in that era, plus one more 1980.

What I'm saying is: blaming Kareem for Mike's injury/gambling/"secret suspension"/baseball shit doesn't take away from Kareem being super durable (which is a testament to his training and conditioning) and also MEGA consistent.

 

[O.G.]

Bruh, You just said that we CAN compare the two, cause we're comparing the best PLAYER. And then proceed to talk about rings which is a TEAM accomplishment which it has already been mentioned that Magic was the best player on them teams.
Then while you were talking about team accomplishments you conveniently forgot to mention how Kareem missed the playoffs right after Oscar retired and missed the playoffs his first year in L.A. Kareem turned into a 3rd option in scoring after the 85 season. Not having to carry a load will prolong your career so his longevity compared to Mikes is pointless in this debate imo. And he was dominant in college but Bill Walton was just as dominant at UCLA. So we are gonna go out on a limb and say Wooden and all those great players at UCLA were on another level.

I use to think KAJ was the goat but i re-educated myself and realized my hate for MJ was blinding my opinion.

You telling me that you would build a franchise around KAJ over Hakeem ,Shaq and Wilt at the center position? Arguments change perspective when you are comparing player to player vs career and accomplishments.

Again. Career goes to KAJ. Best player goes to MJ.

 

[Infamous114]

Should have added a poll to the thread

 

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

Should have added a poll to the thread

Nah. We already know how that would go.

Refer back to this:

None of us saw kareem play you can't just throw stats up and say who is the best.. it doesnt work like that even thought thats how it is now..

That would crush the poll right there...

 

[Olorun22]

Nah. We already know how that would go.

Refer back to this:



That would crush the poll right there...

Don't you think lbj is better than jordan

 

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

Don't you think lbj is better than jordan

Physically, yes. Skill set-wise, sure.

Overall, nah.

Mike is Top 2 in my book....slightly behind Kareem.

Bron is Top 5 (or 6, depending where Bill Russell fits in all of this)

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Magic has ZERO rings without Kareem

I could easily say Kareem wouldn't even got to 6 chips if it wasn't for Magic.

Shit one of the most memorable playoff performances was Magic playing Kareem position and beasting.

 

[Mister B. M. Ed.]

I could easily say Kareem wouldn't even got to 6 chips if it wasn't for Magic.

Shit one of the most memorable playoff performances was Magic playing Kareem position and beasting.

That was the 1980 Finals. Magic wouldn't even got the chance to close that series out if not for Kareem, who by all rights, SHOULD'VE been the MVP that series.



Not taking away from Magic's G6, but he only got that MVP cause Kareem went down in G5.

 

[5 Grand]

I'm going to repeat what i said in my first post because nobody addressed my main point; If there's 5 seconds on the clock and you're down by one point, would you pass the ball to Kareem who has a 55.9 fg% or MJ who has a 49.7 fg%?

Also, asa far as the height argument, its true that he was taller than just about anybody in his era, but you also have cats like Manute Bol, Shawn Bradley, Greg Ostertag, Mark Eaton and Yao Ming who were just as tall if not taller and none of them dominated like Kareem. Even Shaq played 19 years and Kareem outscored him by 10,000 points.

 

[Peace_79]

The answer to your question is Mike.

Why?

Because we have to consider appropriate probability for every scenario.

• Are you inbounding from the backcourt?
• Do you have to throw it to him on the perimeter?
• What if the player gets fouled with zero seconds left on the clock?
• What if they double at the point of the catch and the player has to get open and then improvise

Would you want Kareem in those situations?

Or just when he is perfectly situated in the block...

 

[5 Grand]

Sounds good but you can't double team Kareem. Many have tried but none have succeeded. Thats why he's the all time leading scorer. And even if he's double teamed, its still easy to pass to him. All you have to do is lob it to him and his skyhook will take care of the rest.

I'd be interested in knowing who made more game winning shots between Kareem and MJ. Probably Kareem but I wonder who gas a higher Z-score.

 

[Old Man Cain]

If numbers don't lie......then it's easily Kareem


:ainttrippin:

 

[Peace_79]

“You can’t double team Kareem”

“Many have tried NONE have succeeded”


Bruh... you realize he is just a human being right - Not an Avenger?

He is limited to one spot on the court. If a team has length and size, they can front the post and put a body behind him to stop the ball from entering the post.

You also ignored like half my post and focused on one bullet point