Lord Nemesis
I’ve had to zip up my nigga suit once in a while
Site turning into an incel Legion of Doom.
Preach! You can say that again! I'm tired of men misusing science to promote their toxic masculine views. I've often heard them use terms such as alpha and beta male. They also try to argue why men have to be dominant and women have to be submissive.
JohnSmithCAN
Active Member
Ew. "Submissive women" . That's some conservative white people shit.
Bobjones
Active Member
Ppl who unironically use terms like alpha and beta to belittle are often insecurely trying to either compensate for or obscure traits about themselves they feel badly about, in the same way that some of the most intense homophobes are sucking penis on the down low.
If not that, they're genuinely buying into an extremist ideal of masculinity that isn't healthy.
If not that, they're genuinely buying into an extremist ideal of masculinity that isn't healthy.
They're trying to obscure traits they dislike about themselves. They are often the most insecure. They hide their emotions. They're afraid of rejection and being seen as weak. I've heard a bunch of dating "coaches" say if a woman says she's busy or has a boyfriend, you just need to try to pursue them harder with their "techniques." That's entitlement and borderline sexual assault. If a woman says she's busy or has a boyfriend, it means she can't talk to you. It doesn't matter if they're lying or not.
You're absolutely right when you say they're secretly gay lol. I heard reports of many men secretly paying male prostitutes for sex.
ImaInfluenza
Who do you think you are? I am
It's a big reach to say teasing men about not getting pussy is at fault for rape. I was teased about being broke, I didnt go out and rob a bank.
Bobjones
Active Member
Well, I mean yeah if a chick instantly rejects a dude they gotta just take their loss and move on. the "im busy/i have a boyfriend" fibs are the classics of letting dudes know she dgaf about u. If u press a situation you'll likely make it even worse for urself and ur esteem. not worth it. there's plenty of fish to try your chances on. ceaselessly going at the stubborn ones is wading into needlessly desperate territory.
id fully expect a dating coach to be just as ruthless in their techniques as a used car salesmen. they're ultimately in it for the money and dishonesty and gimmicks = $$$ from the desperate and lonely.
You're kind of missing the point. Toxic masculinity pressures men into losing their virginities. While not every male virgin is going to be a rapist, many are going to have sex out of pressure and the way they go about it is often harmful. I've heard of so many girls who got hurt because their boyfriends slept with them only to leave them. Why do you think that is? Because of the toxic belief you have to lose your virginity ASAP.
ImaInfluenza
Who do you think you are? I am
I get your overall point, but that's a wild clearly stated reach to get to a nuance point. What you just stated would have been a much more definitive statement. I see in this same thread you have empathize with victims of abuse. If you can empathize then you can understand what that level of abuse does to someone. That's not something you want to play with to make a point unless whatever point you are making is as disgusting an act.
Its akin to the chick from star wars that got fired trying to compare being a maga Republicans wit the holocaust. It's like, its one thing to feel persecuted but dont use something that has been some real shit, to relate to something is based on feelings.
Rubato
it only matters to us
Learning to handle negative influences in a positive way is a critical part of becoming a functioning adult
Quit expecting the world to be catered to the fragile minority
JohnSmithCAN
Active Member
Lol, even black "redpilled" seduction coachs would told to their viewers to not run after women who are busy or in couple and they're still toxic on some matters-- and oddly right on others.
They have to be the ones breaking up their couple and risking the steady relationship for you, not the other way around.
Bobjones
Active Member
if you're a virgin who takes his sexual frustration out in a harmful way instead of being content, even if grudgingly, to bust a nut on the daily to your favourite ig thot, you're corrupt beyond the point at which toxic masculinity would have a significant snowballing effect imo.
sexual release is simple. bust a nut = no more (or at least greatly reduced) sex drive = go the fuck to bed and try again tomorrow. to claim toxic masculinity is driving sexual crimes is to claim we're taught our worth exists in sex. that's a blatant lie. that sentiment doesn't exist for any but the most narrowminded, morally bankrupt, hyper-machismo horndogs on the fringes of society. general toxic masculinity that feminists rightly call out doesn't account for that perversity of thought and action. for the vast majority, intercourse is just yet another form of release. and sex ultimately pales in comparison to other areas of life in which we might find self-identity, purpose and meaning.
if you have rapey tendencies, any negative effect of peer pressure would be more like a small bit of icing on the massive shitpile cake that is your life decisions, foul upbringing, detestable personality and genetic misfortune.
im usually not one to bring out the "some are winners, some are losers" argument because of how simple it is, but there's a ring of truth to it here. not everyone is ideal relationship material. but many are. you're competing with others for affection and might just lose out more often than not. this harsh truth is probably fostering more resentment among extremist virgins than toxic masculinity is, it just happens to be that it's easy and convenient to throw unreasonable amounts of blame on an externality like toxic masculinity (or even females in general) than it is to accept your inner condition.
sexual release is simple. bust a nut = no more (or at least greatly reduced) sex drive = go the fuck to bed and try again tomorrow. to claim toxic masculinity is driving sexual crimes is to claim we're taught our worth exists in sex. that's a blatant lie. that sentiment doesn't exist for any but the most narrowminded, morally bankrupt, hyper-machismo horndogs on the fringes of society. general toxic masculinity that feminists rightly call out doesn't account for that perversity of thought and action. for the vast majority, intercourse is just yet another form of release. and sex ultimately pales in comparison to other areas of life in which we might find self-identity, purpose and meaning.
if you have rapey tendencies, any negative effect of peer pressure would be more like a small bit of icing on the massive shitpile cake that is your life decisions, foul upbringing, detestable personality and genetic misfortune.
im usually not one to bring out the "some are winners, some are losers" argument because of how simple it is, but there's a ring of truth to it here. not everyone is ideal relationship material. but many are. you're competing with others for affection and might just lose out more often than not. this harsh truth is probably fostering more resentment among extremist virgins than toxic masculinity is, it just happens to be that it's easy and convenient to throw unreasonable amounts of blame on an externality like toxic masculinity (or even females in general) than it is to accept your inner condition.
Alot of seduction coaches are scam artists. They try to fool you in believing you'll get tons of women taking their advice. Whenever they show videos of themselves "picking up" women, it looks so scripted and forced lol.
I disagree. Toxic masculinity is a driving force behind the choices men make especially when it comes to sex. That's why people promote the stigma male virgins are socially awkward people who live in their mom's basement. They equate lack of sexual experience with lack of life experience.
You don't have to rape someone to prove you're affected by toxic masculinity. You can engage in other behaviors like lie to a girl by saying you want a relationship when you just want sex. Basically, having sex just to prove you're a man even when you don't want to do it shows you're affected by toxic masculinity. Many men lose their virginity because of this mindset.
Toxic masculinity is an unhealthy expression of masculinity. It's prevalent in many parts of the world.
JohnSmithCAN
Active Member
These are, of course, the most extreme cases and I agreed with your point.
But under the context of these either virgins, sexually shy or sexually moderate people who are pressured by their entourage and partner into sex beyond what is legitimately regarded as healthy social dynamics, we can talk about coercive rape and psychological abuse under that specific frame.
Bobjones
Active Member
You equated toxic masculinity with assault in your OP, that's what I addressed and which many already rightly called you out on for reaching. You're taking a softer stance now which I agree with to an extent. There are nuances to why men are virgins and the discussion around the issue isn't helped by going around telling ppl they're socially fucked basement dwellers. I get that.
But I don't believe that anything but a tiny minority of men are having sex when they don't want to just to prove they're men. That's absurd. It's absurdity follows the same line of reasoning of how "on the fringe" the idea of personal worth (in general or as a man) in sex is. You'd have to be thoroughly engulfed by sexual thoughts and perversity to unhealthy, even abnormal degrees to think that way. It's borderline if not full blown personality disorder type shit imo. Or sex addiction.
These aren't normal, everyday ppl thinking this way. It's the weak and troubled. It's ok to make a call to action for the sake of these people, but it isn't ok to conflate the issue into a more pervasive problem than it really is.
JohnSmithCAN
Active Member
That's where you're wrong. Here's the facts.
1 in 3 boys (ages 15-17) say they had sex because of peer pressure from male friends. Teen girls felt less pressure. That's a clear sign toxic masculinity is an issue.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200305/peer-pressure-and-teen-sex